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I've only seen female players using the high-toss consistently but nearly all of the top Chinese males use a high-toss as part of their repertoire.

At one point Zhang Jike must've been throwing around 40 or 50% high.

I personally use the high toss because - literally no clue why - it allows me to get a shorter backspin serve with my pendulum action. It also seems to add a tiny amount to the disguise of my serves.

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To the extent that it is used less frequently, I think it is because of greater use of reverse pendulum serves, which are very very difficult to execute with very high toss. I still see it some, although it depends on how high the toss has to be for you to consider it high. Samsonov and Schlager still use really high toss a lot. Also Mitzutani. Ai Fukuhara among women.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

I think Baal is correct.

I use a high toss for variation, but only one under or topspin serves.

Also there is just that much more room for error with a high toss. I'm also very particular where I high toss since I have sensitive eyes and I often see stars when I follow the ball up into the lights haha. If the lights are too bright I will screw it up everytime

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Thought I'd post in this (older) thread as I employ the high toss serve. Lots of good points have already been mentioned

With such a serve the server has less control because it is more difficult to brush a fast moving ball
and so the serve may be somewhat unpredictable. An intended short and low serve might not end up quite like that Sometimes we may cream the ball just right and produce wicked side/corkscrew spin and ace the opponent, whilst other times it may go a bit too high and be attacked. At low levels of play where sub optimal serves arn't punished fequently, this matters less. Also at low levels, a high toss serve isn't seen much and so has some surprise value.

As pointed out, with bright lighting, the server could be dazzled. When playing at a new venue, I look up to check the lights and for protruding beams etc. It is difficult to throw the ball up and not look at it, expecting it to fall down on the same path.

Whilst the serving rules say the ball must be thrown "near vertical", players will, with varying degrees (pun intended), throw the ball towards themselves. Then the bat to ball contact can be faster facilitating extra spin (and disguise). This reduces the need for a high toss serve.

Any further comments?

One disadvantage of a high toss throw is that it is hard to execute a short dead serve. I think you do all other types (short high spin, long dead and high spin) with a high toss, but I am not sure you can do short dead spins. Lower toss allows all 4 variations.

Samsonov can serve very dead, but you are right, it is harder with high toss.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

I just recently added the high toss to my arsenal. It allows me to impart wicked spin on short serves with very little wrist stroke. High toss being uncommon nowadays, my opponents almost always misjudge the spin on the ball.

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There's one guy at our club (coincidentally one of the top players) who occasionally does a high serve. It's a little off-putting, and it throws me off a bit. The ball is moving faster when it hits the racket, so it's harder to tell the actual moment of contact.

I think they are effective if practiced to consistency, but I have no idea why they have lost popularity.

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I agree on all counts. Especially that you can surprise the opponent with a high toss serve as not seen often. The opponent can be bamboozled by the "performance" and forget to try to attack it (at lower levels).
The level of speed and spin can be deceptive.
I agree it is difficult to get a short tight version but no doubt it can be done with practice

To be honest, I'm less likely to do this serve on a pressure point as I'm more likely to miss the ball or make sure I don't and so not get the big spin.

Yes I reckon it certainly takes more practice than a low toss serve. I don't think I'd risk it at a high pressure point either.

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I still use them for reasons mentioned. Some people seem to have more problems with it than others. It's good to have in the toolkit. To learn it, the main thing is to have a very consistent toss. I am using them less than a few years ago, I think.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH

Yes you're certainly right there... I do know a person that uses a fairly high toss serve, and he struggles with the toss, the whole serve just doesn't work, and it brings his whole game down.

I'd love to learn one, but don't have the time to practice it, and don't have the ceiling height to practice at home.

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I use a fairly high toss and with a comfortable lead will use unnecessarily high tosses, but nothing annoys me more than staring into a light because even if I make fine contact with the ball on serve. I can't see over the table very well until at least third ball.

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Interestingly, I took the high toss serve out of my repertoire entirely during the summer season because I played at a venue where the ceiling simply isn't high enough for a high toss serve.

It's not just the fact that physically the ceiling is too low but also that its lighting is low - as soon as you throw the ball above maybe ~6ft off the ground, you're looking directly into incredibly bright lighting. We all know what happens next

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Ha ha! It kind of depends on how high the toss has to be to be considered high. For me it is about six-twelve inches above my head (high), as opposed to about nose high (normal). Maybe that is not high enough to be considered a high toss? Anyway, I am confident I can always execute it and would not hesitate to use it at deuce but at one point I practiced it a lot. Learning it developed precision and touch on many other things, so it is good to play with it at least.

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Butterfly Viscaria Black tag
2.2 mm Nexy Karis M on FH and BH