OOAK Table Tennis Forum

If someone serves no-spin or backspin to your LPs, how do you deal with it?

Not so long ago a better player at my club asked if I could chop a few for him. I couldn't control his topspin with my SPs (technique and skill issue, not the SPs!) so I changed to my LP bat. After a while he asked if I wanted a game, so I thought I'd give it a go with the LPs.

He served a few to my forehand which weren't a problem at all, but then started serving deep, fast back and nospin to my pimples. My returns were always with the LPs and would always be giving him top/nospin which he'd consistently lace past me.

How do you deal with this? Is there something other than varied placement that I can do with the pimples? Twiddling would be an option for sure but having played with my SPs for the past few months I've entirely lost confidence in doing that mid-point.

Alternatively, is the answer just to "be ready" for the loop-kill?

I myself played against a player who has just shy of 2.5* my grading (he's a D1 player, I'm D4). He uses LPs on both sides, and I suspect he wins a lot of games by playing against players that don't know how LPs work. I beat him with pretty much the same tactics as the other guy beat me - heavy backspin serves, which came back with varying degrees of top for me to attack. One of his LPs has sponge and the other is OX (and they're different types of LP) which caught me out a little to begin with in terms of the amount of spin I was getting back, but I got there in the end.

It's not something I'm overly concerned with for my own playstyle as I want to continue down the SP route, but it's something that I've been thinking about since those games. We only have one good LP chopper in our league that I've seen, and he twiddles a lot for serves.

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Deep serves to the LP are always critical, especially with no-spin or US as you described.

In principical you have several options to return them properly, depending on the serve itself and you and your skills

• twiddle and attack with inverted
• take it with FH and attack
• push it deep to the far BH corner of the opponent, the longer and flatter = the better. For variability, rarely switch to FH corner.
• attack it with LP (especially US can be attacked quite well, once you know how to do it)

Safest option is to push it deep to the corners, this is also how the pros handle it. Bat angle has to be adjusted according to incoming spin. Best is to get a partner to serve a series of nospin or US serves and try yourself which is the best approach to it. This way you develop a good feeling for the return.

If you keep it long and flat, at least the opponent will not kill it istantly, but launch a loop that you are able to return properly afterwards.

BTW: I myself consider my return game as the most crucial at my level now. If opponents are a tad bit clever, they will continiously serve deep to the LP. If I am not able to return those probably, I am dead without much of a chance.

Coxeroni's advice is excellent. I would work on all four of the areas he mentioned. The deep pushing is actually very tricky - if your return is not close to the baseline you are dead-meat against a reasonable player.

That's great, thanks.

With the Curl P1-R, if I really dig in to a deep backspin serve (small chopping action), can I return it with no spin? Or will it just lessen the topspin being returned to my opponent?

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

The main thing is that your return is deep and the trajectory is as flat as possible. Whether your return has no spin or a touch of topspin doesn't matter as both are extremely easy to attack.

Is it ever worth aiming a deep, flat return at my opponent's playing elbow? Or should I primarily be going as wide as possible?

A related question if you don't mind carbo. If I'm trying to chop a topspin stroke which my opponent has played off light topspin or nospin, do I need to be further away from the table than if I'm trying to chop a topspin stroke which my opponent has played off backspin? Or is it just a case of needing quicker reactions?

When I gave my opponent deep, heavy backspin serves I had no problem chopping his slower loop. When he was lacing loops past me off top/nospin on the other hand, I really struggled - positionally and in terms of reactions. Do I just need to improve my reactions, or do I need to move a bit further back a bit quicker?

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

Putting it deep is mostly the best option, but your primary goal is to avoid the strong attack. If you catch your opponent on his elbow, this works equally well. Same, if he is able to loop BH than FH, go for FH instead. People put it deep in the BH to avoid FH loops, which mostly are the most deadly weapon of the opponents.

I play a defender weekly who heavy chops with H2 on both sides. The ball slides off the OXLP and bounces on your side of the table sometimes twice before hitting the net on your side.

My solution using BH OXLP:

1) lift the ball and let the ball continue its spin so he gets top spin - this might get smashed back if its too high.

2) hit the ball down to up motion - the backspin from him will keep the ball low.

3) hit the ball turing your wrist as a hinge with open face perpendicular to table - yes it works...coach says so!

4) chop the ball but you might have to angle the blade so the finish goes up not down.

5) close angle inverted like bh loop for more topspin

6) side swipe

7) hard push like with inverted

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1- re- aiming for the elbow (I prefer 'arm-pit' ): you are only pushing a backspin ball, a shot which is not that quick and your opponent gets plenty of time. If he/she has even modest footwork then moving out of the way is very easy. If you are playing and attacking shot to the elbow then that is a different story.

2 - Chopping is a tuff gig and your footwork has to be perfect. You want to have a uniform stroke where every time you contact the ball it is in the same position in relation to your body. This spot (the vertical spot at least) is usually in front of your belly-button. Thus, you must move into the correct position every time so that you can play this uniform stroke - if the ball is deep then move back; if it is short move in. Your reactions/anticipation will improve over time.