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 Post subject: penhold play
PostPosted: 28 May 2013, 01:14 
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well after watching many matches from old to new. i have seen that penhold style has become a long distance style? like the days of gue yue ha , jiang jialiang and liu guoliang they all play close to the table main with the driving shot i think. nowadays when i watch likes of ma lin, xu xin etc they all play far back with their loops. my point is, is playing close to the table not good anymore? i know that they were short pips players the oldies but why isnt there any player who are like liu guo liang. even wang hao aint close to what liu plays like. this new generation just seems like a slug compared to the older

ps: im a penhold and use short pips fh and inverted bh


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 Post subject: Re: penhold play
PostPosted: 28 May 2013, 13:43 
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I've always thought of chinese penhold as close-to-the table. Xu Xin backs away a little bit if he's being attacked. I think a penhold player TRIES to play as close as possible, but that's hard if it's being hit so fast at you :P

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 Post subject: Re: penhold play
PostPosted: 28 May 2013, 17:02 
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i don't see a problem if penhold player playing away from the table..unless you're penhold hitter.

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 Post subject: Re: penhold play
PostPosted: 28 May 2013, 22:11 
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yes but why has it moved on? i mean all the old chinese players used to play close to table and finish a point easily even if they get attacked. i always thought shakehand was more better for loop and penhold is better at close table play as the it is more flexible.


where are the all the short pips forehand chinese players?


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 Post subject: Re: penhold play
PostPosted: 29 May 2013, 00:14 
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I think this has nothing to do with penhold but here is the reason -

modern game is extremely difficult to cope with if you play close to table -doesnt matter shakehand or penhold. With the new rubbers and speed and spin based game, its not easy to maintain high level or play while being stuck close up. It was possible earlier because of slower equipment and the feasilbilty of a purely blocking Backhand. Now you can not afford NOT having a solid bh attack.

When you talk about two winded attack, its extremely difficult to pull off near table because you have less time to make big swings and without big swings, you can't possibly be an elite level offensive player. While penhold is more flexible and uses more wrist, it just can not offer the kind of power it needs when up close

So I dont think this has a lot to do in specific with penhold but just about how the modern game is.

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 Post subject: Re: penhold play
PostPosted: 29 May 2013, 00:16 
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Classic example of what I said above - watch Ma Lin vs Ma Long in the china trials this year. You will see how Ma Lin as talented as he is can not cope up against solid attack because of his up-close style. LGL comments on this - Ma Lin is forced to try and end points quicker because he is close to table and that greatly limits his tactics

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 Post subject: Re: penhold play
PostPosted: 29 May 2013, 02:03 
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To the original poster:

I would rank the demand on the opponent's reaction time as more important than the speed itself, and once you count the extra time in flight for the ball hit from behind the table I don't know that it gets back quicker than a good over the table punchblock.

So, maybe it wasn't behind the table shots that made things too difficult (at the highest levels), but close to the table topspin driving.

So, for penholders the rpb was developed, which requires a switchover.
But if there's time for a switchover playing penhold then there's time for one playing shakehand.
So, the shakehand switchover was accepted by necessity, by more players.
Needing more time to switch over, more players stepped back a little.
Because they then lost that over the table quickness, they developed bigger swings and T. Rex thighs.

Still talking to the original poster: Fortunately, neither I nor my opponents will ever be elite level, so the choice is still open to me.
But of the choices close/far, shakehand/penhold and inverted/pips, it's close to the table play that I'm most devoted to. And even Deng Yaping and Gao Jun hit hard enough to destroy anyone I'm likely to play against, so I'm not worried about it, myself.

(aside: Two posts up Rahul_TT makes a good argument for fast equipment close to the table. So, the fastest equipment is not always a thoughtless choice.)


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 Post subject: Re: penhold play
PostPosted: 29 May 2013, 08:01 
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i would've thought that the game before 40mm ball was faster? the ball was 38mm which made it faster and i see what you mean of the ma long vs ma lin but ma lin is getting old now and he is losing his ability as age increases?

when i watched liu giu liang it seems like he is commanding not just by his power but with his placement of shots,speed and tactics


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 Post subject: Re: penhold play
PostPosted: 29 May 2013, 12:07 
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Game is faster and spinnier because of faster spinnier paddles

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 Post subject: Re: penhold play
PostPosted: 29 May 2013, 15:39 
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The introduction of 40mm is a disadvantage for penholder.
Also, the longer a point drags on, a shakehand attacker has a better chance of winning the point.
As faster and more powerful rubbers come about, the more away from the table plays we see. That's when we also see the weakness of a penholder: the wings.


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