OOAK Table Tennis Forum

One of the things I'm struggling with at the moment is my kill shot.

In short, it's two difficulties: getting to the ball on time and choosing which stroke to play.

How do you play your kill stroke? I'm interested to know...
- How you choose when to attack
- How you choose whether to loop, powerloop/loop-kill or outright drive

I'm also interested to know if this stroke is different to an offensive player's similar stroke. For instance, I find myself often RUNNING to hit that kill shot and at that point my footwork is disastrous. I've seen all of the pro defensive players play this running stroke - and I think I pick the right balls to do it - but is it just practice to get the footwork right when doing so or is there a specific technique?

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

I generally don't kill the ball when I am running to the table. I either loop to a good place or just push to a place where I can loop the next ball or chop to restart the point.

I generally loop all my forehands if possible. The speed and power depends on what ball I am presented with. I kill the pop ups unless they are spinney. If they have tons of backspin I slow loop with high arc. Preferably deep. I don't play an all put smash kill unless I could be in perfect position to do so.

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-Teddy

Hard to say how you decide to attack or not... Mostly experience I suppose by reading what's on the ball. I never drive the ball, but loopdrive it. When it's spinny or below net height, I slow loop it.

Nothing different in the stroke: you only need to be there at the right time. It means you run as hell to the ball and the last decimetres you adjust with little steps. It's a matter of timing and practice.

What doe you mean with disastrous? You're not there on time or you've already passed by the ball?

My kill shot is a lob (or fish or push or chop or...) that lands on an edge or net. Usually unreturnable.

You did say "defensive players", after all.

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Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74

Oddly, I often find myself with my left foot forward (I.e. majorly forward, like a metre or so) AND I find myself stamping my foot. Basically my body shape is totally wrong and I don't think I'm ever balanced.

Your suggestion about running then stabilising your base just before you play the stroke sounds like exactly what I need to work on.

Teddy and Lorre you have both echoed my thoughts in terms of when to play the ball so I guess I can be confident about trying those shots now even if I do miss a few in the process.

Retriever, do you never try to kill the ball? What happens if someone lobs you?

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My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

How you choose when to attack
I always try to attack when ever that is possible and makes sense (meaning I am not completely out of position, ball is not too low or too deep). I do that because of 2 reasons: a) I really like attacking b) At some point you reach a level of play where you just simply can't win without attacking

How you choose whether to loop, powerloop/loop-kill or outright drive
Well.. since I don't have a good slow/spiny loop I always go for powerloop/loop-kill. I don't wanna waste time looping 5 times to get a point. Usually 1 powerloop is enough to win me the point. I do that from any ball..


I agree - those running loops can be a pain in the ass Probably that's why I powerloop close to the table 95% of the time

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Setups (click on writings to read reviews):
1) Defence III / TSP P4 (0,5) / M3 (2,0)
2) Defence II / Joola Octopus (0,5) / M3 (2,0)
3) Ross Leidy "White Shadow" / P1R (1,3) / Hexer PS (1,7)

OK, I do smash. But not very often. It has to be up a little on the forehand, or sometimes on the backhand, and I go for placement rather than power.

Ask PRW for his opinions on my kill shots (when he is back from the Australian Vets Championships).

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Retriever (sometimes golden, but often leaden)
Moderator, Inverted Retriever Technique sub-forum - http://ooakforum.com/viewforum.php?f=74

So THAT's why other players hate long pips and defenders. You kill people! You even discuss ways on forums how to perform the "kill shot".

Table tennis is family friendly. Keep it that way.

Ok, ok, I'm sorry...I shouldn't say things like that.

DON'T KILL ME!!!!!!!

Man, I hope this doesn't count as spam

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Happy Holidays 'round the world!

Well Dunc, as someone who does perform a pure "kill shot" at every opportunity I get, it goes something like this....

1. I'm looking at a ball coming to my side that I can slam in one way or another. So judging height, position on table (and how I need to move and how much)

2. Make major feet adjustments (if required), then make minor feet adjustments (almost always required).

3. Watch the ball in main vision, keeping table and net perspective with peripheral vision (I find this really imperative to making the ball travel a successful path), take arm back (usually with some body twist)

4. Judge ball height and type of swing required for correct (successful) impact, which can range from an all out flat smash to a loopsmash or a backed off power version of either of them or something in between. Obviously a lower ball is going to require more topspin to bring it down on the other side.

5. Judgment of where to hit the intended kill shot. This point doesn't fit perfectly here, as this starts happening potentially from your previous shot or possibly even earlier if you are playing out a strategy with the kill shot as the end goal. This point though takes into account opponent movements, ball position, body/feet position achieved at point of impact (yes, there sure can be some improvisation required).

5. Release body and arm power into ball with senses continuing to monitor ball position in relation to me and my bat (incoming spin and misjudged ball pace or movement and mistaken feet adjustments can require swing and wrist adjustments up to the point of impact). Having the sense for where I am in relation to the table and the "projected" (brain calculated) ball position at impact helps make these adjustments. Eg. bring the wrist down more sharply on the ball or even around the ball if it feels like last second spin assessment needs countering to stop the ball flying in undesirable direction.

6. Impact. In this phase its pretty much all about executing everything that has been designed into the shot as well as you can. And on top of that assessing the likelihood of the shot being returned and requiring recovery, versus not. Typically, a well devised kill shot should not require recovery, but things don't always go to plan and recovery should always be there as a backup. However, sometimes players of non-pro level just have to go the "all or nothing" approach and recovery simply isn't an option for the kill shot to be totally effective.

I try to make my kill shots down most people's BH sides as I find less blocks come back successfully from that side, even though a kill shot to the FH is often easier to perform. Its not hugely often my kill shots come back, but most the ones that have come from their FH side unless I have accidentally hit it straight into their bat and effectively handed their block to them (and I have done this on more than one occasion).

Against a player like Retriever there, my kill shots take even more thought as you often find it takes 3 or 4 kill shots to get an actually successful kill. That usually means working them around to get lobs back that you can angle past the barriers so they can no longer reach the ball Of course his plan is that you eventually lose that table perspective or stuff up your footwork and miss the smash altogether. Not that I have played Retriever himself, but I know his type

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Thanks everyone, some really valuable information there.

On reflection from tonight (although I've had a hideous day at work so probably not the best time to analyse), I think there are two major problems.

Firstly, at times, I'm picking the wrong shot. It's usually pushes that I'm trying to punish but some of them are just too low and too short.

Secondly, when I play this stroke, I appear to "stamp" my left foot forward as I do it. I don't think this is giving me a stable base AND I think it's stopping me from timing my strokes correctly.

However the bigger issue is that, at the moment, I completely lack the confidence to kill backspin pushes. I'm sure some of you can empathise with just how frustrating that is considering only three weeks ago they were exactly the balls I was looking for and exactly the balls that were winning me point after point as part of a true modern defence game. Now....... net, net, net, net, net.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

If you net them at the moment, you might want to learn to slow brush loop them with half the force you did a while ago. Just to get the feeling back. When your percentage is high enough, you can go faster again. Besides, it's the no spin/low spin/too high pushes you can kill, not the heavier, low ones. Those need to be brush looped all the time.

I sense it's a slow Saturday night/Sunday morn...was gonna make a new topic - favourite stroke?? but then remembered, no googled, this topic...

With my faster blades I now am happy to report that I love punching backspin balls that are about a foot over the table when I'm set, especially with my FW+. The sound of my balsa blade is a scary pop (not a wimpy poop) as the ball goes cross court on a wide angle for a winner. But even better is my side swipe bh return, once again especially with my FW+, off service. Lot's of movement and speed and puts alot of pressure on the server - didn't utilize that technique before with my slower blades...

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A big bag full of blades and long pimples, donuts and coffee!

I find it's all about footwork. I keep getting reminded, GET TO THE BALL!

This drill helps.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vqmdd8eK9bE

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Blade 1 Ross Leidy Rapscallion/Custom: Victas VS>401: Tibhar Grass D.Tecs LP 1.2mm
Blade 2 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Xiom Vega Europe : Tibhar Grass D.tecs LP 1.2 sponge
Blade 3 Fiber Andro Def Blade : Adidas R6: Spinlord Dornenglaz OX
Experimental Blade : Victas Koji Matushista Def : TSP Curl P1r LP .6 sponge : Giant Dragon Submarine Chop



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