OOAK Table Tennis Forum

A few weeks ago I finally managed to pin down Jim Clegg who's an ETTA Level 4 coach (highest coaching level in the UK) and until recently when he retired from our league duties was also our Head Coach with Tony Rigby (Tony's done some equipment test videos for me).

This video is about how to return a short backspin serve with a flick - it's aimed at helping beginners understand the importance of spin and builds up with footwork, bat angle and recovery. It includes what not to do when playing the shot and why.



This time the filming was scheduled, I had Jim's script beforehand and I had control of the cameras and sound rather than it all being filmed off the cuff. I've taken on board comments people made on the series of videos done with Andrew Rushton around camera angles and what you liked, so thank you to those people.

Unfortunately a few weeks ago I found someone had downloaded the video I made for William Henzell, changed one word of the title (but not in the actual video) and uploaded it as their own so when I made this video I've included a PTTA (Preston Table Tennis Association) logo discretely in the top left corner of the video. It's a pity I've felt I've had to do that. I'm fine with people embedding the video, linking to them etc, but not passing off work as their own and potentially making money from them. No one in our league gets paid for these videos, everyone gives their time for free and that's the way we want to keep it for as long as we can.

Thanks Debater. As always, your new video was top notch and interesting throughout. Thanks for sharing.

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good basic video, maybe too long winded, but overall a concept easy for youngsters and coaches to follow and practice
I find even young ones worry about their height return so I can see some wanting to flick more than this lifting method

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Yes it is "long winded" and I'm very conscious of the need to keep videos snappy because people get bored quickly so this video could easily have been edited down to about 4 or 5 minutes but:
1. The intro was there to show who the helpers were - young kids learning and developing. That tries to associate all ages with playing and improving at table tennis ie coach is retired but still playing a game which children are also playing and playing well - a sport for all ages and abilities
2. By repeating the points and adding a little bit extra each time either in explanation or with different camera angles and speed of film, it saves people having to "rewind" the video or jump back to watch points again - just like practice, repetition with subtle variations and additions. If people really wanted to they could just watch the last 3 minutes - it's there for people to take and use what they want and disregard the rest.

Regarding young ones wanting to flick the ball because of their height, if I understand you right, I disagree. To execute the type of flick you seem to be describing I think you need to be taller not shorter. This "lifting" method is actually easier for shorter children to do not harder because they are making contact on the bottom third of the ball - which is closer to them - and coming up the back of the ball and this is easier to reach. Lift your left arm up as high as it will go - what's the easier part of your hand to reach - the underside of your hand or the top side? And then once you've reached up as high as you can, now try and reach further forward in front of you. Your arm is going to come down, and trying to flick the ball coming down on a short backspin serve is probably going to dump the ball into the net. That's just a personal opinion.

Also, to flick the ball you need to step in first. If height is a problem I doubt they would have the reach to get to the ball to play the flick - any type of flick. If they can reach the ball however, they should be able to play this basic type of flick.

As an aside, the height issue of players is an interesting point. One of the parents after our coaching session last week asked if all table tennis table were the same height. He wondered if on some tables the height could be lowered to accommodate smaller or younger children. It's a valid point. I've never heard of height adjustable tables before.

Has anyone else heard or seen height adjustable tables for sale or used them?

Debater, it is always nice to have someone like you and your club to spend time for the promotion of table tennis, especially to the beginners. This video is a great introduction for those beginners who have troubles returning short under-spins as an alternate for return by pushing.

height is a factor but a biginners height may be variable, and some may have to get up on their toes etc? anyway I have seen his vids before and he always has sensible strokes for lower level players and even better players who need to help

I belive in some parts of mid Asia under 11 play on lower tables in competitions, so the table are available and will nelp shorter / younger players it also helps stop the wrist forward up stokes little kids do
Im supposed to import some myself but havn't really required it yet

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Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
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Yeah, I heard about that, and a few other quality posters' vids getting done like that by a scam-bag joker. You are clearly clean and top rate quality among the community, but jokers like that one can really piss you off.

Of course, in a match it is easier more high percentage to just wait a little and cut it to an uncomfortable place, but then again, if one doesn't learn foundations and variety, then practice it, one will never get past being a beginner, good vid.

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Thanks Der_Echte. I almost reported the person but as long as they left my comment on the video alone I let them be. I've kept a check on it and it's now not playable. The account has been closed, so I'm assuming someone has reported them for copyright breach.


Agreed. Or you'll eventually get found out by better players and then it becomes very hard to "unlearn" bad habbits - which I'm finding out the hard way!

That's an awesome video to explain just what he is trying to Debater. The "long-windedness" is necessary to inbed the message in the viewers mind properly. For anyone familiar with the message already, the video repeats too much. But for the target audience, its just imparting the message often enough to learn it well. And I think even then, some youngsters would watch this over and over after trying out what the coach is saying.

Good one!

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I thought it a good video too.... The principle isn't really any different to allowing for the incoming spinon, say, service, but there was good emphasis on the 'in and out' footwork for a good stroke and recovery. I thought including the youngsters was a good touch as it pitched the vid well.

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Thanks for the feedback guys.

It's had good viewing figures so far for one of our videos and I'm keeping an eye on audience retention stats that YouTube analysis gives me and the audience retention is not spectacular but not bad either and it picks up above average towards the end when Jim summarises everything which suggests people are getting the most from the last 2 or 3 minutes of the video.

Another advantage of having the kids in from a local perspective is, kids share this type of thing with their friends much more than adults do so it's better at "spreading the word" by including them in the video rather than just having adults do it all.

I've been playing relatively seriously for about a year and a 1/2 now and I found this very useful.

Sometimes you might focus your training one one aspect of your game and another area suffers. At least for me it's like that. For that reason a return to basics or referesher course on certain shots is very useful.

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