OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Firstly, when I say young here, I mean players in their teenage who have dedicated training programs. How do you play them?

The reason I am asking this is because I have often felt that these players have a very differently play style from the regular bunch (good but not super-serious players, players who train less than 5 days a week etc.).

Here is my experience from playing young kids around my level 1700-1800.

Solid technique. Better than mine in most aspects.

Inflexible tactics. I feel they keep on playing in a monotone with little regard to the opponents game.

They might have different serves but variations in a rally are not there.

Heavy variance in skill level between shots. For some reason I feel that the coaches try to focus on one skill at a time. I see a lot lot of players with superb forehands and movement drilled in to get fh into play but absolutely no bh loop etc. Makes sense to me and sometimes I use this to define my own tactics a lot.

Extreme quickness. The footwork at even this intermediate level that these guys have is what players who are semi-serious have at 2000 level.


While each of these traits apply to any player in general, combined all together, they do describe a lot of young heavily-trained intermediate level players. That makes them quite unique when it comes to devising tactics against them.

I have a few pointers on how I play them but I would love to know more from the wealth of experience that exists here

I try to play heavy spin. Most of these players have trouble lifting seriously heavy underspin or reading it. I once beat a guy 200+ points above me (1930 was his level roughly) by just playing spinny shots and I won 3-0.

Deep pushes on the bh. As I said most of them don't yet possess a screamer bh opener so when out of position, they push or weakly loop a deep push on their bh which plays into my style.

Prefer counterloops over counterhits. The players at my level would beat me 5-0, 10-0 probably if the whole match was of counterhits only (no tactics, no serves). So I avoid counterhits and try to back up as soon as the rally opens up. Their drives are just way too drilled out for my skill.

Outblock. Combined with heavy pushes, some of they find it difficult to sustain looping. I feel confident blocking as long as they are not counterhitting or feeding off weak pushes.

Long very spinny serves. But then this is something I use more than others against anybody else so not really pertains to such players but they don't fare much better either.


Would love to know what others do!

_________________
Butterfly Timo Boll ALC FL, FH - Tenergy 05, BH - Tenergy 05
Buying equipment is like getting into a relationship. One night stands are great but you get the most out of it when you work at it for a long time.

Deep pushes into their body on the backhand side followed by a fast block to the same spot and ocassionally down the forehand side usually worries them. Also adding sidespin to your pushes can mess their drilled timing. Most of the kids I hit with have long past us2000 years ago so I only measure my success against them in games I win not matches .

_________________
Donic defplay senso
Haifu whale soft (grips-euro)
Nittaku pimplemini 1.0mm

I chop hard when playing young players. Apparently, their training is focused on topspin and drills but not chopping. With this strategy, I forced them to commit error with their spin. But it does not work all the time

_________________
Enjoy the game. It is a never ending learning experience once you play and keep the ball on that 45 sq ft of space or should I say half of that space.

I focus on tactics they typically don't drill such as fast dead balls and sidespin. Sometimes chopping works but not if they're accomplished loopers. I try to end points early.. no long rallies!

Kids around level 1700-1800 have insane amount of trouble with heavy pushes, you could win by only doing that and throwing in a few occasional blocks, or even better if you could smash weak loop after strong push. With few shots like that you show them who's the boss and they will play like they are afraid for the rest of the match.
Also don't worry if you are not on the same level in terms of technique, because I get the feeling that kids usually get very annoyed if you can return their "best" shots with some "sloppy looking" technique
Since young kids are like little robots, your main goal should be to try and quickly figure out what they can do the best and after that just play the opposite or mix everything up.

_________________
Setups (click on writings to read reviews):
1) Defence III / TSP P4 (0,5) / M3 (2,0)
2) Defence II / Joola Octopus (0,5) / M3 (2,0)
3) Ross Leidy "White Shadow" / P1R (1,3) / Hexer PS (1,7)

I agree that many have trouble against heavy backspin. These days so many don't get coached to loop properly but instead are taught to 'drive' (I call them counterhits). As a result they seriously struggle to lift heavy backspin with any safety or consistency. I think it is a legacy of Ma Long being number 1 in the world - everyone thinks that is the only way to play.

Definitely my experience. The final few points of my last match on Monday were where $junior had performed a flashy looking FH loop, which I just blocked with FH LP, which looked eminently hittable, but just went straight into the net. The final point was met with an anguished howl: but HOW!



+1 excellent advice.

The other thing I've noticed is that there's a lot of "CHO!" ing going on. Partly because they're copying. Partly because they're not above gamesmanship. One player was saying "cho!" after every point he won. In the end, the next point I won I bellowed a massive world championship winning "CHOOOOOOOOO!" at the absolute top of my voice. It made the entire building shake. He didn't cho again!

The point I'm making is that against the youngsters, a lot of the game is psychological. At their level they have better skills, better footwork, more training, better fitness. But they do lose confidence easily.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

"junk" it up and watch them miss. Play cut defense, knuckle cut, then when they hesitate to attack after all their misses, attack strongly. Make them feel everything they do is wrong. Make them hesitate to make mistakes after doing too many, pull the carpet out from them, PUNISH their weak balls and make them know you are their to crush them. Shake their hand and tell them you are about to kill their puppy dog.

DO NOT get into fast low spin Fh to FH or BH to FH counterhit rallies, they all seem to love that stuff and will be faster, more consistant than you. Slow the game down, change it up.

_________________
Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter

the other thing is once they get your /our heavy pushes back then they go up a level
a good coach and/or a good kid will know why they are loosing and then work on some measures to improve that area
in general (although styles are a factor) a 1700 kid and a 1700 adult are both at the same level, one maybe passing thru and the other steady
but untill they can beat other players 1600+ then you/ we have every chance of winning.
I played a boy(National level Jnr) last week (maybe the 6th time we have played over 2 years) I won the first two times then he won the next 3 times all close
So with my age and his training I wouldn't have put money on me in our last encounter
I tried heavy serves he just taps them back if short or spins it up if long, I tried theee on old long pips fast no spin serve deep to his backhand, that had some initial success, but as his father has pips he knows what to do, but I did stay close and was winning game per game
and the (main,only thing that did work was a light spin serve that he pops up because he pushed it and then I wack the next one, So I did get him this time
13-11 in the 7th
As I'm a National selector, his friend and a qualified coach I'm torn between helping him pick this serve and tell him other area's he needs to improve....... or my other angle is what If I have to play him in a semi of a event in 4 months time and the little prick wops me

_________________
Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
NZ table tennis selector, ask a question
My Blog here..How table tennis objects are made
Table Tennis abbreviations, and acronyms

tell him, rodderz, tell him.... sacrifice yourself, for the good of the game, and the future...

I will if you do the same Pete lol, well it doesn't mean that he will still win

The thing is we can't pigeon hole all trained juniors the same, many don't get much better and others .... well g-o-n-e
and you are left with just a story
One of the things that some organisations do here is make them play weekly interclub/ league where they learn against all styles and not just the one

_________________
Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
NZ table tennis selector, ask a question
My Blog here..How table tennis objects are made
Table Tennis abbreviations, and acronyms

Actually that's the case for our youngsters - they play in the local leagues against all sorts of styles. I think it's good for them! Seems to be working anyway - three, I think, of the top ten juniors in the country are from the club I train at.

_________________
Yasaka Sweden Classic | 802 OX | C8 OX
Check out my blog - LordCope's Latest Learning Log - 10+ years of accumulate mistakes!

For my style, mixing in heavy sidespin with pips shots really gives them a lot of trouble. Anything "unorthodox" will make them struggle. They are training on standard type shots, especially topspin to topspin rallies. Heavy sidespin is something they don't train on frequently, and then when I throw in pips shots, they make a lot of mistakes.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Heavy anything anoys young kids, because the kids they train with just can't make the same spin as an adult. The problem is they are so fast to attack in the short game, you often don't get to employ a heavy loop.

_________________
Donic defplay senso
Haifu whale soft (grips-euro)
Nittaku pimplemini 1.0mm

hey, I feel like I was being that kinda youngster a year ago lol.

for me, ever being the 'victim', there are several ways to make youngsters got pressured in the game, then make soooo many errors during game, eventually destroying their oh-so-perfect-by the book stroke, and having a rough time to return their stroke to how it used to be

1. Push long, with variating amount of backspin. Mostly seniors in here firstly push with heavy (I mean HEAAAAVVVYYYY) backspin, so they will be forced to open up racket angle mooorrreee then it has to be (while theoritically, actually they are capable enough to loop the ball if they brush it more instead following their hot blooded instinct to slap the ball to the fullest lol). After get used to the ball, give a lesser backspin amount in your long push, and welcome to flying-ball-off-the-table era where you get lots of free points :p

2. After that, do more variation of backspin amount on the push. It'll confuse 'em more.

3. Sidespin's the real best weapon against them. They already know that sidespin balls are one of the easiest ball to loop/topspin against, but because they're already got dictated with the previous backspin party, it'll ruin their perception and analysis.

4. pips-out. Most of them hardly ever encountered the 'dark side'. Once they know how to play against pips-out, shown by they being able to loop backspin ball from pips-out, that's the sign; sign that their looping and topspin stroke are getting ruined lol

Finally, their stroke get messed up, scolded by coach, and going to have a hard time getting it right back the way they used to be

It took me 6 months to re-adjust my stroke, and the next 3 months I totally change my style of attacking, considering the previous style was too risky if applicated in the upper level

_________________
Back to 7 ply allwood, no more composites for now

Hurricane 3 Neo

Still looking for some short pips with the softest sponge available, preferably something with a LOUD speed-glue-effect sound

Whack and Loop for eternity