OOAK Table Tennis Forum

this is indeed my biggest problem with non-looping players, and it's why I'm considering moving to FLIII

one way of getting round your problem however is to avoid going for a medium pace/spin ball, and concentrate exclusively on spin. if you play a slow, high-arching spinny loop, most players have trouble dealing with it... and even if they don't, you've got MUCH more time to retrieve the next ball

the faster you loop that ball to your opponent, the faster it comes back

the other thing to consider is where you're putting the ball. if you put it down the line, which is the easiest shot, it's also easy for your opponent to block it cross table to your wide forehand (which, at best, you'll have to lob back on to the table). if you play it into their crossover or even wide backhand, you'll either win the point outright or get the ball back in a more convenient location to then play a powerloop

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

the problem with this is it's so easy for opponents to pressure you into making mistakes from your backhand corner when trying to loop

I consider myself a decent looper and one of my most powerful movements is taking a big step to my backhand corner to loop into my opponent's wide backhand. if you give me 50 match balls to loop on my forehand side I'd estimate that I would loop 45 of them well. give me 50 match balls into my wide backhand, forcing me to take a big step, and that percentage halves

it's a real weakness of the LP modern defender in my opinion and one that boring opponents seek to exploit relentlessly

I'm hoping that by changing the pace with the LPs - i.e. rolling or attacking the ball into my opponent's forehand (righty), I might find more avenues to attack easier balls than having to commit (over-commit, a lot of the time) to the forehand loop from the backhand corner

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

why? what this pip will change? i changed to OX from 0.5 to have more options dealing with pushes

i have bad consistacy with spinny and slow loops
but as i think now those allrounder which i know and play with will try to block safetly (they will not smash it)
so maybe its a solution i need to try it, starting with softer loop
because usually i attack down the line or in the middle (on elbow) and i try to do it as strong as i can (depends on push, harder push i need to loop more safety)
i'm trying to do ma lin (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SXbaz6aOqo)
but i'm not good enought yet!

yes, its my favorite shot, deep inside out
but its really hard to do becuse as i said before u need to:
1. make a big step to ur deep bh
2. low body posiotion to lift backspin
+3. do inside out (crossover) shot

it's +1 to add to a hard stroke making it harder to do

_________________
Butterfly Defence II / Victas Curl P1V 0.5mm / Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.0mm -185g

The solution to all this ???

I think the majority of pro players defender do twiddling. I started to do that. He push you then twiddle and send him a good inverted push or top spin ( no need to turn around for FH). Change the speed and go back to your pimples make it short and slow. A short swap and then a good fh attack.

I think it is the solution. Above 2000 the players can play your weakness. So you need to have all the tool to answer this.

My problem with twiddling to loop is that it's yet another stroke I have to learn.

My backhand loop against topspin isn't too bad. Against backspin, it's inconsistent. To try and play that in a match, I need confidence. Otherwise I have to repeatedly practice that stroke... and that means less time practising my "core" shots.

I currently do 4 drills per week. One of those drills is a third ball attack, with my twiddled inverted backhand loop. I'm doing that for exactly the reasons we're discussing here but I still don't use it enough for it to be a reliable attack.

And if it isn't reliable, the same issue occurs... pushers can pin us into the backhand with a push and rely on us making mistakes to lose points.

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

i never saw a pro defensive player to initate with backhand loop vs backspin..

twiddling doesnt work on some higher lvl allrounders

for now i'm doing inverted push or pip punch from backhand and wait for weaker stroke to attack it with fh
its a good strategy but some allrounders almost never do a weaker stroke
so i need to be more risky i guess and try to be more aggresive with bh pushes/punches and fh attack
but it isnt so shiny if u are standing in the middle and someone is pushing u with a lot backspin to ur bh and u try to move around and attack it with fh

_________________
Butterfly Defence II / Victas Curl P1V 0.5mm / Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.0mm -185g

Garbol,

twiddling offering you new shots and strategy to use. Of course it need to be practiced and yes there is other shots to practice but I guess it depend of the level of tennis table you want to achieve. But I think to go higher this is a most.

Great defenders don't often use BH loop to receive a serve. It's true. Some russian women are doing it do. But all the famous men who play defense have that shot in their arsenal and use it against a push or high push to kill the ball. ( Look at Yoon sunea, a Young chinese defenders who surprise ma long and other chinese attacker with his bh inverted loops) The BH shop or push is more often use as IT IS PART OF THEIR STRATEGY to play a mental deception game. Their game they know best. At PRO level Attacking a serve with backhand loop to an attacker is playing in their ground not yours !

I'm pretty sure that the attack with a twiddle from the BH will come as a new powerfull tool against the attacker who installed themselves and just slow loopspin and low psuh the ball until he can finish the point.

They install their games, theirs strategy to force the attacker to go beyond their ordinary attack and then make mistake that the defender will then take advantage to make the point.

I think that we are missing the important point here. The all around opponants that seems to never miss their pushes or loops are probably few hundred points higher than you are. OF COURSE THEY WILL BEAT YOU THE MAJORITY OF THE TIME. THEY ARE FASTER, MORE STABLE, HIGHER TECHNICALLY ETC... Above 2000 rating they know how to handle LP. The real game of strategy and deception do all the job.

THERE IS NO MAGIC SOLUTION TO THAT EXCEPT GET TRAINED, GET BETTER AT IT, FASTER ALSO.

Everyone knows a defender who have more training and skill and can have a very good match against these all around players. They push better and faster. They manipulate the ball much better, change the speed and the direction in fraction of second. It's not the rubber or the blade it's their consistancy, their physical condition and startegies that win the points.

If you look a game between two high rank it will not be a lot of balls in the net because of the spin reversal, the attacker been totally destroy by the "magic shots of the defensive raquet". No, it will be win by changing spin, speed and direction. It will be the well executed strategy that will win the game.

Stop looking for a magic shot. Let's get trained if we want to go higher !

No, but you never seen a professional attacking player constantly and relentlessly push into a defender's backhand as a tactic, either...

_________________
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254
My YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtazeX ... oICGS9bqNg
Join the OOAK Discord!: https://discord.gg/Yw2hYUdz3g

[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

i watched some best ox player (liu song, fabian akerstorm, sun jian fei)
all of them have powerfull fh loop so my simply conclusion is:
1. more variations on bh pip strokes (fast/aggressive,slow/passive and lift/push/block/side)
2. better fh loop
3. moving my normal stance/position few cm more to bh (so it will be easier to move around and attack with fh)
4. think abt 3 points above while playing


equipment
those players are using spin reversal pips (with flat tops of pips)
but i think any OX LP wiill be fine, just something good in close and far to the table and stick for a while with this equipment

_________________
Butterfly Defence II / Victas Curl P1V 0.5mm / Tibhar Evolution MX-P 2.0mm -185g