OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Like I said in my previous post - you keep hitting the ball to his power zone which is why he doesn't have to use much effort to beat you.

Because you only know how to loop in one way. If you learned to loop shorter with side topspin as another variation, you would pull him wide off the table more often and with more sidespin, you would even get a few blocks into the net. Contact the side of the ball once in a while. You keep looping to the middle of the table - you have to make him move to the ball. Start off with balls to the forehand.

IF what you are doing it taking a lot of energy, you are either looping exclusively with your arm or using a very slow paddle.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

Sidespin loop, hmm yea I could try that.

This may help.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

In the game you lost, you played 28 forehand attacking shots (loops +counters). Zero were to the wide forehand.

Yeah, so listen to NL and Gman. Since you already know how to loop a little bit, why don't you start practicing your sidespin hook against those simple long starter serves he gives to your FH every time. Is there any particular reason you are unwilling to attack his serve?

Yes, he does that because after playing for 2-3 hours every day for years, he's learned that it's easier for him to bait a top spin smash on the serve just to block it to an awkward spot. I learned from slamming the serve back over and over that it puts me in a bad position because he can just block it (quite easily) to an awkward spot. He want's everyone to attack that shot.

Heck, we even nicknamed it 'the mousetrap' because anyone he can bait into hitting that shot back with any speed will inevitably be stuck in a awkward position of trying to return really wide blocks to corners. The guy just paints the lines on the outside of the table. You might get back 3 or 4 but the angles get wider and wider and he's kind of parasitizing your speed to power the wide angled block.

It turns into a mad scramble just to cover the corners and if you just hit any kind of shot, that shot is just finishing as the ball is coming back wide and deep and fast. You can see it there at 1:45 mark in the second video, he absolutely loves to have people hit forehand slams at him because it's so easy for him to block it to the corners. I kind of used to just keep that going but he will just run me ragged trying to cover those corners. (that last shot is block to the line, mid point off the table. )

It's really that problem I'm trying to solve, how to you respond to that super fast block off the bounce. I agree though that the sidespin hook shots look promising. I've kind of tried to re-vamp my game around just this guy as I would previously just try to power through everyone but now I have to hit a lot of chops, slow loops just to prevent what would happen over and over otherwise which is me slamming and the ball instantly being back in the worse possible place. (with wonk spin ) Still happens though, like 1:12, 1:45 in the first video... It's like counter-hitting in boxing, I"m afraid to even throw punches. I do hit a wide slam to the FH corner there at 1:12 in the first but it's instantly down the line in a spot I just can't get to with my backhand in .10 seconds. (but even if I did, he would hold the paddle out/down and angled left and immediately block it wide left)

It's interesting to me how my mere mentioning of the word "attack" got you to start talking about speed. You can attack a ball in table tennis and send it back with low or medium speed and heavy spin. I wasn't implying that I thought you should smash that serve.

You keep talking like this guy is some kind of blocking and placement God. I think the posters here might find that a little more believable if you actually made him move a little bit. Again, out of nearly 30 attacking shots in the 2nd video, you hit the ball to his wide FH zero times. You found his middle/transition point exactly one time. From the tone of your posts, it sounds like you are giving this guys game way too much respect.

It is nearly impossible for any human being to paint white lines and hit the ball to unpredictable places if YOU are the one that initiates the first attack with good placement. I'd like to see you loop this guys serve to his extreme wide forehand (so it breaks theo sideline) and then see him paint the white to your wide backhand against that ball. I'll bet he can't.

I'll reteact my statement once you show us that he can on video, after you learn to hook loop.

I can't help but find that comment hilarious. (that I'm giving his game too much respect.) In any case, you might be right about the loop to the sideline. I'll definitely give that a shot. Fundamentally what I'm asking is how do you get around this situation of it being easier to just plant a paddle down in front of good shots and blocking them crooked back faster than the person can respond. (Perhaps this is the answer you are providing)

Normally, when I lose it's because the person is just clearly more talented, they hit ball cleaner and clearly have more skill than I have, this is different, this is just me (and all the other folks I play with) not being able to counter one simple thing over and over, a fast block off the bounce with a little back/sidespin to the corners. The guys is a one trick pony, but man is he good at that one trick.

What you see in the videos is really an evolution of trying lots and lots of different things. I'm confident I can start hooking top spin shots off the middle wide. Intuitively I'm not sure how that will prevent him from just dropping the paddle down and 'shanking' the ball back to a corner. I'll trust you though and start working on it. Looking at the video and thinking about your comments, I think you might be onto something.

Let's talk for a second about his ability to block back your fast smashes, since this seems to be bothering you. Part of the reason he is able to do this is because he has spent hundreds of hours playing against you guys over and over and over. He can read your body language like a book and he knows where you are going to smash the ball before you even do. Some players are very good at anticipating and reading their opponent, and this guy is one of those players. There are many ways to counter this, such as faking in one direction and going the other, using a tomahawk smash with sidespin, or dropping the ball back short to make him move and come back in. If your opponent is so good at reading you, why don't you try to learn one of these options? It would be fun and you wouldn't have to wear yourself out smashing over and over again.

If I were in your shoes, I would do the following:

1) watch the video NL sent you on ball placement about 100 times.

2) practice your hook forehand whenever you get a chance. Try to use it against your opponents long serves to your forehand.

3) when you play this guy, stop judging your performance based on whether or not you win or lose the match, but rather on how much you made him move. Give yourself a score from 1-10 based on how much you made him move, and how little you moved.

4) Start practicing your serves. Get a sidespin serve that curls to his wide BH, and then follow with an attack to his wide FH. And learn viceversa. Get a serve that curls wide to his FH and then attack his wide BH.

5) When he backs off the table and you start smashing, start trying to learn how to fake one direction and go the other. Do not go for brute force over and over again.

6) Stop giving his shots nicknames and start giving your own shots nicknames.

You are absolutely right about him reading our shots, if I do even a little fake it's amazing sometimes because he'll be on the wrong side of the table. The downside is that it's hard for me to fake a shot and not screw up more often. Overall, I think that sounds like good advice. Thanks!

William,

When you pass a certain level, there are zones of the table which you play to and expect to lose the point. All your shots land in those zones and so do your serves as well. OF course, since your opponent is merely blocking the ball back, you are not getting adequate feedback on the quality of your shots and you are making the mistake of thinking that just because he is not killing the ball, those shots are not poor, but they are.

I have posted below a loss and a win of mine vs. the same player. Assuming that both players did not change radically between the two matches, you can see the difference in what it takes to beat a blocker/hitter.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jhsvzueXpM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWqg0Gdl0tY

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus

You have very good attack, but it can benefit from some improvements:

1. Your serve is weak. Learn spinny and fast serves. Serve fast to your opponents corners. By fast serve to his BH you might get free point immediately, as he stands in wrong corner.

2. You usually attack with same spin, speed and placement, which is easier to blocker to defend.. Hit into his corners, as he likes to play in the middle. Learn slow and spinny loop.

3. Learn spinny push.

Those are things you should have if you play serious tornaments. And because restricted play area, your long distance defence might be lacking because lack of practice.

Anyway, you should just enjoy your game, as it looks etertainning.

I was thinking much the same as I watched, but there are several things that immediately strike me that I don't think have been mentioned. First is that William's strokes while pretty decent at times, lack consistency and lack return to a neutral position most the time after them. Cos he is young, he moves quite well which makes up for a lot of it, but it also means his opponent is often making him stretch and reach. This ends up in not being able to play his best shot (we are all guilty of this by the way, its just degrees of how much, and how well we have developed "manufactured" shots to counter it). Returning to neutral quickly will help the consistency though. And if you watch your opponent carefully whilst doing this, you'll also develop better anticipation of where his next shot is going and then be there for it.

Second thing is your serve. Its glaringly obvious you are treating the serve like its just there to "put the ball in play". Its far from that to a good TT player. I'm looking to win almost every point from serve when I serve. Of course this doesn't happen and realistically I both know it won't, and against some players I have to adjust that to "use the serve as a tool to set up my strategy", which is why I said almost. But basically, the serve is a powerful weapon as it is the first step to winning the point. Watch some good serving vids and learn to serve with purpose and much more intent. You'll be amazed how far this can take you. And you have to PRACTICE good serves, as they are easily mucked up without it. If serving is easy, then its not good enough serving. Your opponent has a strategy with his serving, which is to set up a fast block back. You need to work out what serves will best suit your own game strategy.

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

Reb,

As a USATT tournament vet, I am speaking in that context. Yes, this is not high level play, but it is not basement level play either. There is enough spin and consistency in the play there that the strategies we told him have value. That is not the case with many players I know who post these kinds of threads.

_________________
Cobra Kai TT Exponent (Mercy effs up your Game)
One-Loop Man: One Loop... Again????
Lumberjack TT Exponent

"We don't rise to the level of our expectations, we fall to the level of our training" - Archilochus