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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2016, 00:33 
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Hello everyone!

Lately i have been playing vs couple of friends of mine who play with ancient premade bats whose rubbers lost all grip and are completely slick, frictionless (i guess they resemble anti spin rubbers now) and are,surprisingly, causing me a ton of trouble.
It feels like all my standard training goes out of the window and I entered a twilight zone where all the laws of physics are different and I keep making ton of unforced errors.

Here are some observations on how these rubbers behave (and how these players play) and any recommendation on how to approach playing such rubbers would be great:

-these players mostly just poke the ball around till I make a mistake with occasional effective flat hit so I have to be careful about not giving them easy higher balls

-balls I receive are really peculiar - mostly short, completely dead, floating balls with little energy and bounce and are causing me huge issues:
-they don't seem to have much or any backspin but for seem reason still have some downward pull so my flat hits often go into the net/ on the other hand, I have to be really careful with topsin angles and close the racket or the ball will go long
-balls I get are mostly short and low so very difficult to attack for me (can't use large topspin movements and my flicks are weak)
-huge timing issues - on rare long balls I swing hard and ball just dies and drops from the air unexpectedly and I miss the ball completely

-my serves, especially backspin type, are nullified, they simply put the racket in front off a ball on every serve and I get the same dead short weird return I can't do much about

So, such players simply take away my only two advantages, spinny serves and topsins and either force me to play passively pushing their weird balls with slightly open bat angles (and they can outlast me in poking the ball arround) or if I try playing offensively I simply self destruct by misjudging the flight off the ball and spraying the balls all over the place, really frustrating. :headbang:

Any help and advice is super appreciated!


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2016, 00:59 
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How well do they handle backspin? And sidespin? There was this guy I came across who was at least a solid 1500 who played with sandpaper. I only took one game off him out of a half dozen. If they're actually 1800 level players in disguise you might have a really tough time.. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2016, 01:10 
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I recently, literally yesterday, lost to a guy playing a premade hardbat (although not an official hardbat paddle, but it is one for sure). He was pretty consistent, and able to loop vs. any spin using the very slight amount of grip his $3 Easton premade could afford. It was a short pip OX premade with a fiberglass/wood mix for the blade. Yes, the kind you get at Walmart. The ultimate junk player's bat. But he was pretty good with it.

I took him to 5 games in league, and lost to him in the 5th after reaching deuce. In fact we hit deuce 3 times. UGH. I took a page out of Bogey's video where he bumped balls back no-spin vs. PB to create uncomfortable spin and force errors. It worked pretty well, except that this guy could hit those weird balls even if they weren't that high. If I looped it had to be of the low power high spin variety which is hard for me to do consistently, if I want the ball to land.

I'm exactly 0-4 vs. hardbatters, and 0-3 vs. pushblockers. I really need to practice vs. this style or else I'm doomed to repeating this over and over again. It's that no-spin soft touch style (with any rubber) that I have an impossible time with, so I can relate. I otherwise played brilliantly for my level, losing a close match to a 1700 level guy, beating a 1600 level guy, and beating everyone below that.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2016, 01:19 
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iskandar taib wrote:
How well do they handle backspin? And sidespin? There was this guy I came across who was at least a solid 1500 who played with sandpaper. I only took one game off him out of a half dozen. If they're actually 1800 level players in disguise you might have a really tough time.. :lol:

Iskandar


My opposition is far from solid, high rated players, they are more like self taught basement champions, it is mostly their non standard equipment that is giving me trouble.

And they don't really handle backspin well on purpose, their used rubber simply does the job for them by killing my spin, they don't even notice when I serve topsin instead of backspin to them, they simply return the serve with the same motion - poke with an open racket and their return is again low, dead, short and difficult to attack (for me at least).
I was thinking that instead of my standard spinny pendulum or reverse pendulum serves I simply start serving fast, no spin serves to their backhand - that way I can at least expect something semi long I can attack with more power.


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2016, 01:25 
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Yes, I know the feeling, one guy in my office is playing like that. LP players can give you similar dead balls, so it's a good practice for that style - learn to spin dead balls.

Your best bet might be trying to move them around and also vary your serves, perhaps going back to fast deep ones, preferably into the body, with occasional change in direction to keep them guessing. They don't care about spinny serves, so don't bother.

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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2016, 12:09 
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Barfly wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
How well do they handle backspin? And sidespin? There was this guy I came across who was at least a solid 1500 who played with sandpaper. I only took one game off him out of a half dozen. If they're actually 1800 level players in disguise you might have a really tough time.. :lol:

Iskandar


My opposition is far from solid, high rated players, they are more like self taught basement champions, it is mostly their non standard equipment that is giving me trouble.

And they don't really handle backspin well on purpose, their used rubber simply does the job for them by killing my spin, they don't even notice when I serve topsin instead of backspin to them, they simply return the serve with the same motion - poke with an open racket and their return is again low, dead, short and difficult to attack (for me at least).
I was thinking that instead of my standard spinny pendulum or reverse pendulum serves I simply start serving fast, no spin serves to their backhand - that way I can at least expect something semi long I can attack with more power.


Even with dead rubber they still have to read spin, so they're not as bad as you'd think. If they can get your backspins back then they know how to handle it! That guy with the sandpaper only played in basements but he understood spin and had solid drive strokes. He'd win by hitting balls past you, not by being passive.

I'd say your plan's worth a try.. don't kill yourself with the spin coming back, if they're not capable of generating spin and pace long, hard topspin serves into the corner might do the job. Or have you tried very spinny, short, topspin serves?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 08 Mar 2016, 14:28 
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Really heavy topspin is hard to handle with this kind of bat....if you can generate it heavily enough.

No spin (floating) in an awkward spot is also really hard to handle for them.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2016, 04:11 
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iskandar taib wrote:
Barfly wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
How well do they handle backspin? And sidespin? There was this guy I came across who was at least a solid 1500 who played with sandpaper. I only took one game off him out of a half dozen. If they're actually 1800 level players in disguise you might have a really tough time.. :lol:

Iskandar


My opposition is far from solid, high rated players, they are more like self taught basement champions, it is mostly their non standard equipment that is giving me trouble.

And they don't really handle backspin well on purpose, their used rubber simply does the job for them by killing my spin, they don't even notice when I serve topsin instead of backspin to them, they simply return the serve with the same motion - poke with an open racket and their return is again low, dead, short and difficult to attack (for me at least).
I was thinking that instead of my standard spinny pendulum or reverse pendulum serves I simply start serving fast, no spin serves to their backhand - that way I can at least expect something semi long I can attack with more power.


Even with dead rubber they still have to read spin, so they're not as bad as you'd think. If they can get your backspins back then they know how to handle it! That guy with the sandpaper only played in basements but he understood spin and had solid drive strokes. He'd win by hitting balls past you, not by being passive.

I'd say your plan's worth a try.. don't kill yourself with the spin coming back, if they're not capable of generating spin and pace long, hard topspin serves into the corner might do the job. Or have you tried very spinny, short, topspin serves?

Iskandar


Regarding backspin, I am sure they don't read spin on purpose, but we should take into account that my backspin generating capabilities are quite low so perhaps a better server might bother them much more with backspin.

You are right about short spinny topsin serves; in retrospect these serves win me the most points, even if they don't miss them outright, these serves often give me something long and higher I can loop or smash


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2016, 04:17 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Really heavy topspin is hard to handle with this kind of bat....if you can generate it heavily enough.

No spin (floating) in an awkward spot is also really hard to handle for them.


Thank you for the advice, serving no spin never occurred to me, although I have had great success serving no spin to LPs (I am not really sure why they find it difficult but they do for some reason) so it might work against such used rubbers, will try it in the next session


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2016, 10:31 
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Just had a thought. Have you tried lobbing? Can they smash high balls? Really high balls? No need to wait for a hard ball, just send back serve returns (or even serve) really high - about shoulder or head height - with moderate topspin and see what happens. Or really high chops, for that matter. Some sidespin to make the ball bounce sideways would help, too.

If they really are 1800 players in disguise, they'll be able to handle it with ease, of not, it might be entertaining.. :lol:

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2016, 14:49 
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Hi Barfly,

This is a good topic. This same scenario happens all over the world!

I totally agree that serving long and fast, but with a lot of variety of location, will cause them to make deeper returns. This will increase your odds of strong topspin hitting.

And your serve returns, if their serves are too low to topspin return effectively, push as quickly and deeply as you can!

And, sidespin loops, when done occasionally, can cause them to miss hit.

I agree that players like this, with no-spin rubbers can be effective. You will need to hit better than them.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2016, 19:27 
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Actually someone complained a couple of weeks ago at my club that someone was using a cheap Kmart bat that didn't have IITF approval. I didn't see he game, but I suspect something similar was going on as is described here.

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PostPosted: 09 Mar 2016, 21:54 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Actually someone complained a couple of weeks ago at my club that someone was using a cheap Kmart bat that didn't have IITF approval.


I hope they were complaining good-naturedly! Encouraging newcomers, for the good of the club, stuff like that! :)

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PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 12:35 
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Yeah.. From my experience playing against old rubber guys are extremely hard if you pretend to be a chopper/defender. Especially when they can smash flat most over the net high balls. Took me a match in doubles to realise that fast top spin serves and anything fast and long during rallies causing most troubles to them.

I also found playing with similar equipment was easier against them. Generally speaking grabbing that almost no spin rubbers bat and having a hit with your friend is a good idea to get to know this style.


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PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 13:16 
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Another thing you could do is complain incessantly about the rubbers being "illegal" - since they're in an "altered" state compared to the original, new state.

Iskandar


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