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PostPosted: 28 Jul 2016, 11:25 
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Hi,
What do you guys do with those heavy top spin with side spin "banana" loops? They look like FH top spin balls but due to a side spin component they kick away from my FH when hit the table and feel like accelerating that way.
I think couple of my opponents generate those with a loop drive pulling their hand towards their body at the tine of contact. Most likely after my week chop or no spin push to their FH with more vertical type of loop which you use on a chop.
My problems are
Hard to predict where to meet the ball as it kicks. I often miss those or hit with my finger if i try to loop or chop normally :(
If i try to loop them normally even aiming a bit more to the left the ball goes very straight and strong usually above the table. I think my racket moves almost parallel to axis of rotation and perpendicular to to the rotation if you know what i mean. I do not have a good brush stroke which is probably why.
If i try to chop again a very straight and strong ball.

I can only confidently push them with closed bat aiming left which ends up with an easy to attack fish/low lob return.
I can also return them with pure sidespin with a closed bat aiming left moving quickly away from my shoulder outwards. This catches up with spin axis the best but i forget about this shot and need time to crouch. Can do similar shot from my waist outwards but again this is unusual shot and needs time. Getting them far away from the table with a scoop away from me is the best but usually cannot get that far away.

I am interested in all techniques as i try to play both lp and inverted.


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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2016, 01:58 
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Rambo Looper Spin First Ask Questions Later
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The top/side is easily dealt with using a forward stroke, but like you said, you have to know the spot the ball will be at impact, (and be in position in time) and that can be tricky. Nothing like practice to get one there. If you are in a spot where practice is damned impossible, then the game becomes practice, be ready to lose games and leave the table to get the strategic gains later down the road.

In general, when we get better in TT level, we are getting better at reading spin and reacting/preparing for it.

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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2016, 02:29 
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Get a good block off the bounce going and the side-spin doesn't get a chance to move the ball away too far...but you do have to counter where the spin will take the ball (unless you have a really dead anti). Otherwise you have to recognise how much side-spin force has been put on the ball and adjust for where you will meet the ball. When I first came back to the game about 10 years agoand was playing pretty low level people, I'd get them all the time with a slow side-spin loop. Looked funny seeing people swing and miss and then the look on their face...like How did you do that?

As I climbed the grades, people are not so easily sucked in, but a good fast sides-pin loop can still get some people. I don't loop so much in my game these days though.....so I side-spin smash instead....or produce a hookshot...they rarely come back.

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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2016, 10:40 
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Thanks! Questions to both of you then please:
- how do I effectively do forward stroke (I assume you mean a littlebit of topspin)? If i try that the ball is very strong and straight and udually misses the table or below net. I guess i am asking what to adjust more effectively in my stroke to get them back (as far as I understand i should aim left to account for the side spin, what else?
- my blocks are not good - too high and easy to smash back. I set a big margin over the net to not land it to net i think. What's the secret of a good block here?


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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2016, 14:37 
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Start with being on balance getting right up on the ball off the bounce with a loose hand and make variations from there.

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PostPosted: 03 Aug 2016, 14:46 
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Der_Echte wrote:
Start with being on balance getting right up on the ball off the bounce with a loose hand and make variations from there.



What he said ^^!

Get someone to help you practice by sending you balls that are not at great pace and develop a rhythm of blocking them as they rise off the bounce, adjusting your bat angle until you find where they go back nicely. As you get better get the feeder to make the balls faster (whether this is someone throwing you multi-balls or a practice partner will be up to who you have available).

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2016, 00:21 
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Great advice above.

Which direction is the spin? Are you hitting your finger on your FH or BH strokes? Are you asking about LP or Inverted returns?

With regards to chop...
Assuming you are both right-handers, to chop a side top loop you want to take the ball with a similar angle to how they looped the ball. In otherwords, if they looped the ball with their racket like this " / " ....then you need to chop it like this " / ". Those angles will vary a little because the ball looses some of the side spin due to the friction in the air and off the table, and therefore the angle of YOUR racket doesn't need to be quite as much and will likely be more horizontal.

On the BH, assuming you have LPs, those angles matter less, but they still matter and the angle depends on the grippiness of the LPs and whether or not you have sponge. My practice partner has a lot of side on his loops, and I often have the same problem you do with it hitting my finger, but that's only an issue on the BH because the ball is curving toward your FH. Now that I've practiced with him quite a bit, I don't have this problem nearly as much, so practice makes perfect here. I still ding my index finger on occasion though. And yesterday, far too much! :@ :lol:

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PostPosted: 04 Aug 2016, 10:03 
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Thanks, Reb und Der Echte! Looks like push-blocking is a basic skill that I ignored for a while. Will try to practice those.

Jap, we are right handers, FH to FH, the ball kicks away from me. They generate it by looping towards their body. If I do nothing the ball hits my idx finger on the far side of my bat or misses the far side. If I just block with no adjustment the ball would kick high and on the right (their BH).

This is inverted as it is FH and I have no time to twiddle or I just play double inverted.

Already tried to chop-block with similar angle, they are very surprised to get a lot of spin back:)


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2016, 05:31 
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depends on the height of the opponent's sidespin loop. If it is higher than the net at the top of the bounce, I have a friend who will flat hit it (smash it). mostly down the opponent's bh side. He has great timing, though. He loves sidespin loops...



and this - attacking sidespin loops both sides...
https://youtu.be/H1Ja50sStpE?t=11


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PostPosted: 05 Aug 2016, 22:27 
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Jay Random wrote:

Jap, we are right handers, FH to FH, the ball kicks away from me. They generate it by looping towards their body. If I do nothing the ball hits my idx finger on the far side of my bat or misses the far side. If I just block with no adjustment the ball would kick high and on the right (their BH).

This is inverted as it is FH and I have no time to twiddle or I just play double inverted.


Hmmm...I guess I'm still confused.
If you are going FH to FH inverted. How does the ball hit your index finger doing that? It should be on the back of the bat, resting on the LPs of your backhand.

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