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Giving advice and help to better players
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Author:  Debater [ 19 Aug 2016, 23:44 ]
Post subject:  Giving advice and help to better players
There is a saying, "the best players don't always make the best coaches".


As a rule I will give help and support to better players at coaching sessions when asked, otherwise I won't.

In matches I've given support and advice to team mates and occasionally had sarcastic comments back from opponents who are better players than me saying my team mates would be silly to listen to me. I usually smile back and ignore them. Now though, I'm starting to keep my thoughts to myself on technique and tactics and limit myself to moral support only.

If you are working in a coaching environement either as a coach or helper:

- How do you feel about giving advice to better players?

If you are attending a coaching session

- How do you feel about getting advice from weaker players?

If a team mate is playing a match, how much support and help do you give them?


If someone posts a video on this forum or asks for help,

- under what circumstances would you post on the thread?

Cheers
Author:  Japsican [ 20 Aug 2016, 00:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
You always post the most interesting topics.

I would say that for the most part, I only give advice if solicited, unless I'm coaching a match. My desire to give advice is always contextual.

During matches, even to better players, advice is apropo because one can't always see things in the match that an on-looker might see, and therefore a second perspective is helpful even if the match coach is below you in ability.

Outside of matches, sometimes better players will ask me about defensive strokes, or specific strokes I'm better at, despite being overall a much weaker player. At 1600, I have had 1800-2000 level guys ask me about chop blocking and twiddling, because they don't really do that often or ever. Therfore, for that particular thing, I'm valuable. Otherwise I'd ask them for advice on everything else.

I find UNsolicited advice from lower players annoys most people. THere is a guy I know that is loud, boistrous, and largely obnoxious, and loves to give guys advice up to 2000 even though he himself plays at 1300-1400. I have literally never lost to him, but he's always imparting wisdom to me...and I have to admit, it irks me, particularly because his advice comes after every point, messing up game tempo or practice tempo. Conversly, HE gets annoyed if during FH warm ups you don't place the ball EXACTLY in front of his paddle...whilst he himself NEVER places the ball in front of yours.

One time, Der_Echte, was getting lots of advice from this guy himself during warm ups before a match where he murdered him 3 straight, something like 4, 4, 3. And I think Der was being nice giving him a few. :lol:

So, to combat this, I've begun giving him advice on every single stroke he does, pointing out all of his flaws in all of it's glory. Short-circuiting then ensues and it's pretty hilarious.

TT has the strangest personalities of any sport or hobby I've ever participated in.
Author:  kim biceps [ 20 Aug 2016, 01:17 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
I think in general yes, I myself seek advice from better players, but there will come a time where a weaker player have certain areas better than you.

In my place not many give away advice knowingly know someone is better than them. I think I myself when trying to get back to table tennis 4 years ago at one time obsessed on watching videos rather than seek physical advice to improve myself.

The things I cannot improve alone, I find in matches and practice. I remembered struggling against heavy sidespin serves and I found the technique over watching YouTube rather than ppl telling me how.

And when u start getting better, I impart my knowledge on ppl asked me the questions or simply within a practice match, especially when I see an opponent ive known a long time struggling with a stroke that I can advice upon.

And I think even last week when I played against an opponent that's roaming in my level (60/40) against him. He just mentioned a video he watches on backhand smashes and point out what to do to add more power after seeing my bh flat smash is quite weak for my stature haha. But yeah I always welcome a much needed advice anytime.
Author:  PRW [ 20 Aug 2016, 01:43 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
If I know the person well, and know their game - yes, I will point out where I think they are doing something wrong, even if they are better. If I know them well, I will also know if they are likely to be amenable to getting advice!
Author:  ZeroZero [ 20 Aug 2016, 02:02 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
I personally don't mind unsolicited advice. As an example: I have the bad habit of sometimes standing taller and taller as the matches goes on and I'm getting tired. And sometimes it's just a good simple reminder to get low again. Unsolicited advice is easy to shrug off if I don't think it's worth it. What bugs me is when it's one after another unsolicited advice even if it's very helpful. There has to be a two way conversation, not just the other person constantly throwing advice out.
Author:  kim biceps [ 20 Aug 2016, 02:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
PRW wrote:
If I know the person well, and know their game - yes, I will point out where I think they are doing something wrong, even if they are better. If I know them well, I will also know if they are likely to be amenable to getting advice!



That's how I feel too haha, I mean those who gave random advice probably is someone who's not likeable imho.
Author:  Musicfreak0 [ 20 Aug 2016, 10:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
I'm fine with receiving advice from anybody, almost regardless of their level. I give advice to some better players (not technique - but tactics), but when people give me instructions - that's when problems occur! :lol:
Author:  Debater [ 20 Aug 2016, 20:16 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
Thanks for the replies.

Changing the angle on this a bit, what would you do if you heard someone passing on advice to another player who was a novice or improver and you knew that advice was wrong?
Author:  Musicfreak0 [ 20 Aug 2016, 21:00 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
I'd say something along the lines of, "Listen to all advice and take it on board, but not everyone is right about everything."
Then I'd give my own advice, which would probably be completely wrong in a completely different way! :P
Author:  kim biceps [ 20 Aug 2016, 22:10 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
Yosh, I think that question would rely on how on much conviction towards their morale one has.

Maybe if I hear them giving an advice that's way out of the ballpark i would try to correct them both (only if I'm absolutely sure I'm right and only if I know I've beaten both guys regularly to justify my advice)

Like innocuous advice that wouldn't ruin one's game in a big way, e.g putting sleeve/grip on their paddles for better serves I wouldn't blatantly stop it.
Author:  haggisv [ 21 Aug 2016, 10:06 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
I would take advice from anyone...it doesn't always get through my thick skull though. :lol: :lol: :lol:

I don't the playing level matters that much. Some players have been taught probably, and can often pickup little things that others can't, especially if they have not been taught properly but may play at a much higher level.

Further evidence of this is when you watch yourself on video the first time... :oops: :oops: :oops: You'll notice things about your game that even a non-tt player would pickup, and might lead to an improvement in your game.
Author:  Der_Echte [ 21 Aug 2016, 18:14 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
The thick skull is perhaps due to Scottish heritage... I got the same prob.

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk
Author:  NextLevel [ 26 Aug 2016, 20:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
I guess as a teacher, I think that coaching/teaching and learning are so complicated that the real issue with advice is what you are trying to do and what responsibility you take for its consequences.

I play in a club with intrigues and political divides. I also posted a lot on the internet and over time giving and taking advice. I think experiencing how often TT players wanted to give advice was a good thing and a bad thing - the good thing was that players were willing to help. The bad thing was that some players gave advice and wanted to take responsibility for everything that had happened to your game, whether it was a result of the advice or not, often discounting the amount of work you needed to put into the game to improve. The biggest thing that stood out was that you need to be careful when taking free advice as some people do not think they have any responsibility for the negative effects and want all the responsibility for purported positive effects. On the internet, there were many cases where I read a player and thought the player was better than myself, but was in for a shock when I actually saw their video. That's why I like to place my advice in the context of my level of play.

I personally do not feel comfortable giving advice on technique to better players about a stroke that has them at a higher level than myself. Usually, that limits me to discussing mostly offensive backhand strokes with higher level players as those are the things I tend to do at a fairly high level.

During matches, my job as a coach is not to focus on technique, but to try to put the player in the best mindset to perform well, so I don't give better players advice so much as I try to tell them what they do very well that they don't seem to be doing in the current match and try to think about what might be causing it. I can tell them what tactics I would use against the player, but I cant tell whether those tactics would work for the player who is playing because of style differences. So I focus on just putting them in the right mindset to play or telling them what I cannot see in their game that they usually do extremely well. IT's usually pretty effective unless the matchup is just bad, and even if so, I find that the most important thing you want to feel during a match is that you are adequate to compete. I am finding more and more that if you feel this way, it doesn't matter what the tactics etc are, you will play your best game. OF course, good tactics can make you feel that way, but other things totally unrelated to tactics can too.
Author:  kim biceps [ 26 Aug 2016, 23:59 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
Anyone who has a dp of one punch man can advice me anytime haha!
Author:  Debater [ 27 Aug 2016, 06:38 ]
Post subject:  Re: Giving advice and help to better players
You're watching a team member play against an opponent in a match.

Your team member wins 11:6, do you reinforce what he's doing well or correct him on what he did wrong to lose those 6 points (and by wrong that includes putting a return in a postion on the table that the opponent was able to hit for a winner)

Your team member loses 11:6 do you do you reinforce what he's doing well or correct him on what he did wrong to lose those 6 points

Which do you do and if you do things differently depending on if your team mate wins or loses, why?

In my experience, when people are winning their team mates reinforce what they've done well and pat them on the back. When people are losing their team mates tell them all the things they are doing wrong to try and get them to correct them.
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