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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2017, 20:30 
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Hi all l, i would like to know why im asked to hit the ball flat(90 degree bat angle) when driving? Or did I misunderstand my coach as he asked me to hit the ball at 3 oclock


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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2017, 20:41 
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I think what your coach is getting at is to think about the "drive" stroke as a distinctly different stroke from one in which you are consciously attempting to generate spin.

When you are driving the ball, you should think about propelling the ball forwards, by hitting the *back* of the ball, with your bat going *through* the ball. Imagine there's a nail or a needle protruding from your bat - visualise the nail puncturing the back of the ball, and coming out of the other side of the ball.

Now, obviously, if you take this entirely literally, you'll hit the ball parallel to the floor, and it will never hit the table, so there's some nuance here. You will slightly close the face of the blade, so the ball travels downwards towards the table, but if you experiment, you'll find that you don't need to close the blade very much before this happens. You'll also find that you do impart some spin, with this shot, but that this is a side effect of the mechanics of the shot, not the objective of the shot.

Now contrast this with a topspin shot. Here you are attempting to brush the ball, in a grazing motion, gripping the surface of the ball with the surface of your rubber. You want the ball to be in contact with the rubber for as long as you possibly can, and you want the bat to be travelling very very fast. Now, if you don't brush the ball, and the bat is travelling very very fast, the ball will rocket into the air, so you're looking for a fine brushing action. Where on the ball (in terms of clock positions) you first graze the ball depends on a number of things, but in essence I think your coach is trying to set up this contrast between a "drive" and a "topspin".

Hope that helps a little.

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PostPosted: 28 Oct 2017, 22:58 
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LordCope wrote:
I think what your coach is getting at is to think about the "drive" stroke as a distinctly different stroke from one in which you are consciously attempting to generate spin.

When you are driving the ball, you should think about propelling the ball forwards, by hitting the *back* of the ball, with your bat going *through* the ball. Imagine there's a nail or a needle protruding from your bat - visualise the nail puncturing the back of the ball, and coming out of the other side of the ball.

Now, obviously, if you take this entirely literally, you'll hit the ball parallel to the floor, and it will never hit the table, so there's some nuance here. You will slightly close the face of the blade, so the ball travels downwards towards the table, but if you experiment, you'll find that you don't need to close the blade very much before this happens. You'll also find that you do impart some spin, with this shot, but that this is a side effect of the mechanics of the shot, not the objective of the shot.

Now contrast this with a topspin shot. Here you are attempting to brush the ball, in a grazing motion, gripping the surface of the ball with the surface of your rubber. You want the ball to be in contact with the rubber for as long as you possibly can, and you want the bat to be travelling very very fast. Now, if you don't brush the ball, and the bat is travelling very very fast, the ball will rocket into the air, so you're looking for a fine brushing action. Where on the ball (in terms of clock positions) you first graze the ball depends on a number of things, but in essence I think your coach is trying to set up this contrast between a "drive" and a "topspin".

Hope that helps a little.

Thanks lord. Guess thats y i was asked to push the ball to the front. But my coach kept saying my motion when i hit the ball was already curving to the left(im right handed) and ask me to hit the ball with forward motion. Any tips on how to do that?


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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2017, 01:32 
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When you're driving the ball, you need to ensure that the trajectory of the bat face is in line with where you want the ball to go. It is very very common for people learning to play this shot for them to hit 'across' the line they want the ball to go. Be mindful of this.

One cue that could help is to think of the bat pointing where you want the ball to go, after the shot.

Another is to be conscious of the size of the follow through. Especially when learning, this is a very small and very relaxed shot, with a tiny backswing and a tiny follow through - you never need to follow through beyond your head, and, if you do, you're starting to introduce bad habits which will make it hard for you to recover in time to play a second shot.

A third thing to consider is the timing of the shot. If you consistently hit the ball to the left of the target, you may be taking it too soon, and reaching; if you are consistently hitting it to the right of the target, you may be taking it too late.

A good drill to work on this awareness is to play across the narrow side of the table, with a partner, playing a tiny fh drive to each other, with one bounce. This will massively amplify any timing errors, and also teach you to feel the ball on the middle of the bat.

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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2017, 16:06 
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aaron_teoh wrote:
Thanks lord. Guess thats y i was asked to push the ball to the front. But my coach kept saying my motion when i hit the ball was already curving to the left(im right handed) and ask me to hit the ball with forward motion. Any tips on how to do that?



Combined with the 3 o'clock comment it sounds more like he's asking you to hit the ball late, when it is beside your body at 3o'clock, nothing to do with spin.

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PostPosted: 29 Oct 2017, 16:17 
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Silver wrote:
aaron_teoh wrote:
Thanks lord. Guess thats y i was asked to push the ball to the front. But my coach kept saying my motion when i hit the ball was already curving to the left(im right handed) and ask me to hit the ball with forward motion. Any tips on how to do that?



Combined with the 3 o'clock comment it sounds more like he's asking you to hit the ball late, when it is beside your body at 3o'clock, nothing to do with spin.


Possibly - I may have picked up on the verb in the subject "driving". However, it's speculation - I'd suggest asking your coach to clarify, next time you have a chance to talk. It makes perfect sense to reflect on a session and ask questions on a forum, but your coach should be the final authority on the matter, or at least you should discuss your thinking and findings with your coach.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 02:23 
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my best guess - and that's all it is - is that you are taking the bat off the line of the approaching ball, i.e. closer to your body, and swinging around the ball, imparting sidespin (1). If you take the bat straight back on the line of the ball, then drive forward at 3 o'clock (2) - perhaps this is what he means?
Attachment:
IMG_2488.JPG
IMG_2488.JPG [ 66.52 KiB | Viewed 934 times ]

note: artwork copyrighted! :D


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 06:34 
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PRW wrote:
Quote:
note: artwork copyrighted! :D

Needs more detail. What there is is very sketchy, and looks a little drawn.

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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 06:49 
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Image

Trust your coach without any hesitation. He is a man of real sagasity and he is likely well competent in Physics.
Look into this picture. When your racket is travelling forwards rather than upwards, your opponent will get a ball going as fast as hell.

V = S + 2 v

V resulting speed
S incoming ball speed
v racket travelling speed


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 06:56 
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Retriever wrote:
PRW wrote:
Quote:
note: artwork copyrighted! :D

Needs more detail. What there is is very sketchy, and looks a little drawn.

:lol: :lol:
(my wife, who is an artist, would be embarrassed)


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 13:21 
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Something else to consider - if you're counterdriving with a partner, the incoming ball has some topspin. Even if you hit the ball flat, if you're using inverted rubber (I assume you are - 99% of the time this is the case, especially with beginners), then the topspin gets "reflected" off your racket, and there will be topspin on your shot. It's this topspin that helps the ball dip and hit the table if there's any sort of pace on it. Try hitting a dead no-spin ball with this same flat stroke and the ball will end off the table (no spin to bring it down) unless you gently pat it back. Similarly, if you try this same stroke vs. an incoming ball with backspin, your shot will end up in the net.

Ordinarily "flat" hits against moderate topspin WILL have a slight amount of closed racket face and a slight upward trajectory, and they always should have some topspin coming off your racket.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 31 Oct 2017, 13:22 
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igorponger wrote:
Image

Trust your coach without any hesitation. He is a man of real sagasity and he is likely well competent in Physics.
Look into this picture. When your racket is travelling forwards rather than upwards, your opponent will get a ball going as fast as hell.

V = S + 2 v

V resulting speed
S incoming ball speed
v racket travelling speed


ROFL... :lol: :lol: :lol: This shows the difference between a passive block and an active drive. Nothing at all to do with why "3 o'clock" would be better than "1 o'clock". In fact, those choo-choos are incapable of anything other than "3 o'clock". Trying to imagine them moving up to produce topspin.. they'd derail!!!

Iskandar


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