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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 15:58 
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Hey guys,
So I'm a long pips player who is aspiring to have a style like Ruwen Filus. This is a match from a recent Inter-School Tournament which I ended up winning somehow (black tshirt). My opponent had a deadly forehand loop but didn't really attack with his backhand, so I ended up beating him with smashes and slow loops without much use of the pips. Would appreciate if someone could give an estimation of my USATT ranking and also point out any fundamental flaws (if any). I will work on power looping on my forehand, especially after slow looping once as it's very easy to counterloop on slow loops. I believe this match is an accurate representation of my ability in everything except counterlooping and chopping (I did them in the semi final but forgot to record it). Thanks in advance!

P.S Red rubber is Tsp p1r 1mm and black rubber is Tenergy 05.

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Last edited by infernowasif34 on 10 Dec 2017, 22:11, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 16:27 
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Maybe 1300ish.
A number of thing to work on but start with footwork and balance.


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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 21:46 
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carbonman is CREUL. (and I like it)

OK, maybe 1300 ratingscentral. Either player would be 1600-1800 USATT depending on where they do tourneys. Both players are super sloppy on serve and return and hope opponent makes errors. Hey, they happens a lot at that level, so not too bad a thing. Neither player makes heavy spin on serves or receive and invite the attack, whoever made a weirder or lower ball wins more of the points.

Dark blue shirt should be careful on serve, every time, player has ball in hand and drops hand and ball below table right before serving, a clear serve fault.

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 22:02 
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Thanks I almost cried when I saw 1300ish xD. But my serves (black tshirt) I believe had spin, especially with the backspin serves. If I am wrong would you please tell me how to improve serves? And also what's wrong with my returns(my red rubber is long pimple)? I didn't try and push long and get into chopping and block/counterloop rallies as firstly, I was nervous af as I lost to him before in another tournament and secondly, I figured I could beat him with forehand attacks and pushing with pips as he firstly, struggled with long pips a bit and secondly, didn't have a backhand attack. And carbonman I get what you mean by balance as I was jumping with the opening loops. How do I improve my footwork?

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 22:17 
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Der_Echte wrote:
carbonman is CREUL. (and I like it)

OK, maybe 1300 ratingscentral. Either player would be 1600-1800 USATT depending on where they do tourneys. Both players are super sloppy on serve and return and hope opponent makes errors. Hey, they happens a lot at that level, so not too bad a thing. Neither player makes heavy spin on serves or receive and invite the attack, whoever made a weirder or lower ball wins more of the points.

Dark blue shirt should be careful on serve, every time, player has ball in hand and drops hand and ball below table right before serving, a clear serve fault.

Posting with quote again as I'm not sure if you'd get a notification otherwise xD. One more thing, do you think I couldve played the match by pushing long and getting into chopping/counterlooping rallies or was my decision to play like this OK? I won 3-1 but wasn't truly satisfied as I want to have those exciting matches where the opponent loops and I chop and counterloop. Another thing, is the way to set up these types of long range rallies pushing long and going back in anticipation for a loop which you can chop or counterloop or block?

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 23:52 
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infernowasif34 wrote:
Der_Echte wrote:
carbonman is CREUL. (and I like it)

OK, maybe 1300 ratingscentral. Either player would be 1600-1800 USATT depending on where they do tourneys. Both players are super sloppy on serve and return and hope opponent makes errors. Hey, they happens a lot at that level, so not too bad a thing. Neither player makes heavy spin on serves or receive and invite the attack, whoever made a weirder or lower ball wins more of the points.

Dark blue shirt should be careful on serve, every time, player has ball in hand and drops hand and ball below table right before serving, a clear serve fault.

Posting with quote again as I'm not sure if you'd get a notification otherwise xD. One more thing, do you think I couldve played the match by pushing long and getting into chopping/counterlooping rallies or was my decision to play like this OK? I won 3-1 but wasn't truly satisfied as I want to have those exciting matches where the opponent loops and I chop and counterloop. Another thing, is the way to set up these types of long range rallies pushing long and going back in anticipation for a loop which you can chop or counterloop or block?


1500-1700, really hard to tell from one match. As Der_Echte pointed out, plenty of mistakes on both sides. Your opponent seemed to vary serves a bit more and probably should've exploited serve to your short FH and long no-spin serve to your BH more. You might want to try attacking backspin serves with LP more and trying to return them deeper into his body, he seemed to have trouble with it.

No idea whether alternative strategy would be successful - I don't think I saw a single chop, so not obvious who would come out on top - his loop is not necessarily that tremendous, but you were mostly trying to block them here.

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PostPosted: 10 Dec 2017, 23:55 
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Don't sweat about the 1300+ RC rating, that would get you 1600+ in many areas in USA.

About your base tactic... no problem... If your opponent will not crush with high percentage your long returns AND you can either block or chop, you are not in mortal danger of losing the point if you do not attack and simply return long. It is simply shrewdly playing the odds. Why take in-necessary risks? So, that part of tactics is just fine at your level, many points won by mistakes. If you know you will make few and entice opponents into them, then by all means, bet money on yourself. These are not just low level tactics, advanced players use them too.

MY comments are more about the QUALITY of the long balls by both of you. Height, depth, placement, lack of spin or deception. On the last point, even bumping back ball with loose wrist will give back a differnt ball, so there is some deception on that easy shot though. My issue was the quality of both you and opponent long returns is poor.

If you are intent on returning long, and not so spinny or low, at least place the ball for trouble. Find his middle. He wants to crush kill like Rambo, so give him what he wants, but to his middle where he THINKS it is easy, but he has to move and even if he lands it, he will be off balance to fail on the next ball. Why not mix in a push to his FH past the corner? If he lands it, a simple block to the vacant BH side wins the point. You will not get such an angle, unless the opponent lands a ball mid table depth, but be ready. I saw so many balls returned deep right to the middle of FH power zone by both of you.

You want an easy attack vs this guy? Push or bump with pips deep to his BH, he didn't attack from there, you get back a long predictable ball and you have the FH to make a pressure or winning shot.

Those are a few things to use that you already CAN do, but need to do in match play to have better success.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 00:03 
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Haha, I see pgpg posted right before I did, listen to hiz advice.

Interesting we both focused on similar comments.

To add another comment about your question if whether you should make the game look pretty...

Well, if the goal is to be pretty and have fun... have at it. If the goal is to win, toss the pretty boy stuff out the window and do what a Warrior must do - FUNCTION in battle and WIN. You make your own rules of engagement in such a fight.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 00:10 
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pgpg wrote:
infernowasif34 wrote:
Der_Echte wrote:
carbonman is CREUL. (and I like it)

OK, maybe 1300 ratingscentral. Either player would be 1600-1800 USATT depending on where they do tourneys. Both players are super sloppy on serve and return and hope opponent makes errors. Hey, they happens a lot at that level, so not too bad a thing. Neither player makes heavy spin on serves or receive and invite the attack, whoever made a weirder or lower ball wins more of the points.

Dark blue shirt should be careful on serve, every time, player has ball in hand and drops hand and ball below table right before serving, a clear serve fault.

Posting with quote again as I'm not sure if you'd get a notification otherwise xD. One more thing, do you think I couldve played the match by pushing long and getting into chopping/counterlooping rallies or was my decision to play like this OK? I won 3-1 but wasn't truly satisfied as I want to have those exciting matches where the opponent loops and I chop and counterloop. Another thing, is the way to set up these types of long range rallies pushing long and going back in anticipation for a loop which you can chop or counterloop or block?


1500-1700, really hard to tell from one match. As Der_Echte pointed out, plenty of mistakes on both sides. Your opponent seemed to vary serves a bit more and probably should've exploited serve to your short FH and long no-spin serve to your BH more. You might want to try attacking backspin serves with LP more and trying to return them deeper into his body, he seemed to have trouble with it.

No idea whether alternative strategy would be successful - I don't think I saw a single chop, so not obvious who would come out on top - his loop is not necessarily that tremendous, but you were mostly trying to block them here.

Haha I thought he meant 1300 USATT. What may I do to improve the quality of my pushes? I can't understand where they lack quality i.e what I am doing vs what I should do. Secondly, ye I didn't really chop and counterloop , should've shown a video where I did them. But yeah even though I'm not happy with the way I played, a win is a win and I'll do my best to get into those chopping and counterlooping rallies as I probably practise chopping more than anything else. Another factor which instigated me not to chop is the lack of space as you mightve seen in the video. I like to chop from a bit further behind. Thanks guys! Now that I know where I am, I'll try and improve more with some new motivation. REACH 2000 USATT LEVEL.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 00:31 
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infernowasif34 wrote:
...

Haha I thought he meant 1300 USATT. What may I do to improve the quality of my pushes? I can't understand where they lack quality i.e what I am doing vs what I should do. Secondly, ye I didn't really chop and counterloop , should've shown a video where I did them. But yeah even though I'm not happy with the way I played, I'll do my best to get into those chopping and counterlooping rallies as I probably practise chopping more than anything else. Another factor which instigated me not to chop is the lack of space as you mightve seen in the video. I like to chop from a bit further behind. Thanks guys! Now that I know where I am, I'll try and improve more with some new motivation. REACH 2000 USATT LEVEL.


So, here is the thing: you should totally stop worrying about what some guys on the forum estimate your USATT rating to be - first, it is very inaccurate (estimate, that is), and second, it does not matter one bit. Since you are not playing USATT-sanctioned tournaments, USATT rating is not a good yardstick (forum opinion does not count). Your actual results matter, so focus on these instead.

As far as improving pushes - I think you want to make them low, heavy, deep, preferably fast, and very consistent - you are an aspiring defender, after all :) . Read what Larry Hodges has to say about pushes on his blog: http://www.tabletenniscoaching.com/blog , he lists like 5 things (I hope you can find it there, he has a lot of posts...).

As far as getting into chopping rallies - that's a very familiar situation. We like to practice chops, but very rarely get to use them in matches, for variety of reasons.

First, you need an opponent who is able and willing to loop - at our level not many are able and even fewer are willing - why would you, if it means losing a point?

Second, if you want to play as a chopper, I think it means building your entire game around it: what you serve, where you return serves, how you move, which shots you go for etc. It is easy to practice series of chops
when you know where ball is coming to, it's another story when you have to get to the ball or your opponent smashes it to your middle while you are stuck close to the table.

Finally, it's also a mental state - you are trying to win points by forcing them to make a mistake, and you need a lot of patience for that. Very hard to stick with it when you need that win...

In the end, though, you play that style because you enjoy it. We are not pros.

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Last edited by pgpg on 11 Dec 2017, 02:35, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 00:35 
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I wasn't trying to be cruel, nor was I trying to be discouraging. :) I have done a dozen or so 'guess the ratings' on MYTT and am rarely more than 50 pts off. Perhaps I am a little off this time as I am not that familiar with the lower end of the USTTA ratings. The player in the dark shirt would be around 1000 RC . Perhaps that equates to something more than US 1300 (??). Maybe the OOAK members around US 1300-1700 could give a better indication.


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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 00:57 
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My first look made me think 1300 USATT, as a lot of the 1300ish USATT crowd does what they do being sloppy like that, but as I saw more of the match, I saw different. Lots of stuff to address? Sure. And you hit where a lot of the emphasis should be - fundamentals - balance, recovery.

How many times has Der_Echte been off on estimates based on one vid??? Well, If I bet lunch every time, I would occasionally be expending funds not programed. :D

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 01:03 
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pgpg took a SLEDGEHAMMER and hit the nail with it.

USATT 2000 level is a good goal for players several levels below that... yet as pgpg sez, the USATT ratings do not apply to you, nor do they help or hurt your game.

For you to get to this playing level, you would need to pretty much improve on everything by 3 levels. That isn't gunna happen this month or next month or next year. Yeah, everyone can call me cruel, but it is straight talk, and why I praised carbonman.

Pushing at 2000 level is SUPPOSED to be pointless and a losing shot, but even at that level, it can win points or set them up if the push has quality. As long as the push did not result in you getting your block head knocked off AND it gave you a ball to attack, then it wasn't such a bad shot after all. Ditto for the push that an opponent wants to attack and misses, it counts one point just the same as if you smashed a winner.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 01:05 
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OP's club should pay pgpg's friend LEONID S to show up there and show what it takes to get errors and punish mistakes.

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PostPosted: 11 Dec 2017, 01:14 
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Thanks guys. Will focus more on building my game around backhand chopping and forehand looping from now on. Will give more videos if there are any upcoming tourneys/I play a good player. Especially if I play a match with my chopping game on, I'll give that. Do give your valuable opinions again then. For now I guess I'll concentrate on upcoming inter school tourneys (if any). We rarely have tournaments here in Bangladesh. It's something like 4 tournaments a year.

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