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Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.
http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=33151
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Author:  Red Atlas [ 05 Jul 2018, 08:55 ]
Post subject:  Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

Hi all,
So after playing with a hardbat for almost a year, I took the plunge and put some sponge and inverted on my forehand.
All things considered, I think it's going ok. But my forehand has lost a lot of pace. I expected the opposite. It's definitely got more spin, and a bit of "kick" to it when the ball hits the table. But it's kind of a slow, spinny, loop, rather than a fast, penetrating loop, if that makes sense. I suspect I'm probably emphasising the "brushing, low to high" motion to control the ball because I'm not used to hitting with any spin. Am I right in thinking that I need to swing more horizontally to get a bit more power? Hit through the ball more?

I also find my opponents have far less trouble getting my forehands back now. I guess they're much more used to that kind of shot than the hardbat forehand. I do get a few free points when they hit long now, thanks to the extra topspin.

I also got a Dr Neubaeur Firewall Plus with Spectol on the forehand (thanks OOAK). Maybe that would be an easier transition for me? I haven't had a chance to hit with it yet.

Author:  Dusty054 [ 05 Jul 2018, 09:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

Thin sponged SP would seem like an easier transition to sponge, but you didn't say what type of inverted (and thickness) you're using?

Author:  Red Atlas [ 05 Jul 2018, 09:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

Dusty054 wrote:
Thin sponged SP would seem like an easier transition to sponge, but you didn't say what type of inverted (and thickness) you're using?


Currently using Donic Desto F3 "Big Slam" in 1.8, on a Donic Persson Powerplay Senso V1 blade.

Author:  Red Atlas [ 05 Jul 2018, 09:47 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

Dusty054 wrote:
Thin sponged SP would seem like an easier transition to sponge, but you didn't say what type of inverted (and thickness) you're using?


Currently using Donic Desto F3 "Big Slam" in 1.8, on a Donic Persson Powerplay Senso V1 blade.

Author:  iskandar taib [ 05 Jul 2018, 11:12 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

The topspin drive stroke with sponge is fundamentally different compared to the hardbat stroke. More forward, less up. (But you have to find books from the 1960s before you'll find one that explains both types of strokes and compares them - I'd suggest Johnny Leach - it's amazing what you'd find in the stacks of your town's public library.) Yes, the sponge adds greatly to the spin you can create, the trick is to use that spin to hit the ball faster, since it's the topspin that makes the ball dip. So you add speed by... adding speed. Hit the ball harder. Forward. The ball won't go any faster if you don't hit it harder.

Iskandar

Author:  Dusty054 [ 05 Jul 2018, 11:20 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

Red Atlas wrote:
Dusty054 wrote:
Thin sponged SP would seem like an easier transition to sponge, but you didn't say what type of inverted (and thickness) you're using?


Currently using Donic Desto F3 "Big Slam" in 1.8, on a Donic Persson Powerplay Senso V1 blade.


Yeah that’s a soft spinny rubber with medium pace. Very different from hardbat. You’ll have to adjust your strokes quite a bit.

Author:  Red Atlas [ 05 Jul 2018, 12:30 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

Dusty054 wrote:
Red Atlas wrote:
Dusty054 wrote:
Thin sponged SP would seem like an easier transition to sponge, but you didn't say what type of inverted (and thickness) you're using?


Currently using Donic Desto F3 "Big Slam" in 1.8, on a Donic Persson Powerplay Senso V1 blade.


Yeah that’s a soft spinny rubber with medium pace. Very different from hardbat. You’ll have to adjust your strokes quite a bit.



Thanks guys. Yep, my forehand has been totally re-reworked. I think I need to hit "through" the ball more. At the moment, it's very very low to high and not much "forward".

EDIT: I've added a video of some forehands against the robot. It'll give you an idea. (I'm aware I need to lose weight and I'm heading the right direction!).

https://youtu.be/-QjNxHV0XQo

Author:  iskandar taib [ 05 Jul 2018, 13:39 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.



Yes, that looks like the classic hardbat forehand topspin drive, with the followthrough above the head. Look at some of Marty Reisman's videos on YouTube, it's more or less the same stroke. The topspin drive with sponge is supposed to end up above the left shoulder (unless you're doing a brush loop, but you shouldn't be doing those yet..). The stroke is a lot more forward, through the ball. And ironically, a lot of people (like me) have the opposite problem - their shots end up being too forward.

Lots and lots and LOTS of videos on YouTube... (We haven't seen YangYang in a while, so..)



Marty Reisman in his prime:



58 years later:



Note they can hit pretty hard, even with hardbat. The limiting factor isn't the speed of the ball coming off the racket, it's the amount of topspin you can generate that brings the ball down to hit the table. Later you can learn loop drives, which is another thing altogether...

Iskandar

Author:  Red Atlas [ 05 Jul 2018, 14:08 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

Thanks Iskander. How good is she! ;)

So maybe I've feed focusing on looping rather than counter hitting. I'll work on the counter hit first.

Author:  iskandar taib [ 05 Jul 2018, 23:04 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

Yangyang? Last I checked something like 2400 or so, IIRC. That puts her in the top 20 or 30 women in the US. She's got a lot of videos, mainly aimed at beginners.

Ah.. found my old post: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=31654&p=341111&hilit=yangyang#p341111

About 10 months ago, rated 2195, within the top 25 US women.

Yeah, loop drives are a different class of shot, and there are different types of loops. Generally they're meant to create extreme amounts of topspin, and the contact is lighter than with a normal drive. They can also be extremely fast, the extreme spin allowing very high speeds while still hitting the table. Generally quite hard to do consistently, unless you practice a lot and are coached. High level table tennis is dominated by looping.

Iskandar

Author:  Red Atlas [ 06 Jul 2018, 09:03 ]
Post subject:  Re: Swapped from Hardbat. Less power on my forehand.

iskandar taib wrote:
Yangyang? Last I checked something like 2400 or so, IIRC. That puts her in the top 20 or 30 women in the US. She's got a lot of videos, mainly aimed at beginners.



I more meant she's pretty cute!

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