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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2009, 21:46 
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speedplay wrote:
Part two in this little series,

You are up to play against a LP/Anti blocker. The guy stays close to the table, covers most of the table with his LP/Anti and blocks it back. Is able to hit with his fh, but is not likely to open up the rallies. Can hit with the LP/Anti but is more likely to block it.

How do you play him, from your own level and style?

I'd stay patient, try and change up spin and location of shots, wait for the first easy setup I get and then hit it as hard as I can so that they hopefully don't get it back. If they get it back, I'd likely start all over again with safer shots, until I felt like it was a good ball to attack.

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PostPosted: 14 Aug 2009, 22:49 
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speedplay wrote:
I've faced a coiuple of players like this and once I found out how to play them, I'm really confident against them, here is what I do:

I serve long, either no spin or back spin against their bh (LP/pips) then use my own anti to push with as little spin as possible to their bh. Then, instead of a push, I make a lift deep to their bh corner, step around and wait for the opportunity to hit my fh to their fh corner. At my level, this strategy eats up the blockers in no time.

The reason I prefer to push to their "strong" side is because then I can predict the game, if I push to their fh, sometimes they will block chicken wing and sometimes they will use the regular inverted, this is avoided by feeding them balls to their pips. Then, when I attack their fh side, they have often became comfortable at the bh corner and won't move very well to reach the ball and if they do, the haven't warmed up their chicken wing, so it will be an inverted block that comes back, which makes it easier for me to follow up on the offensive shot.

I normally serve dead either, short or long and then flat hit the return. when this is not possible I push to the anti/LP and try to flat hit the next ball. If the balls are to low/disturbing to flat hit, I roll them first and then wait for my chance to smash. If they cover there fh also, with the backhand pips, I play two or three balls to there forehand and then smash to thhe backhand. This works pretty good for me, but sometimes I'm impatient and I try to kill the ball too fast. And sometimes when the pips balls are to disturbing, I take the ball a little later.

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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2009, 00:47 
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Blocker or "close to the table" type playerer using junk type of rubber.
Will give an offensive type play a few extra seconds too dictate a play.
You must remember that these guys will block foremost before anything such as attack.

Consistency on my part plays a huge advantage.
Opponents mentality on being "as more consistent" than me will be on the back of my mind.

Blockers usually have very bad footwork and would predicting them too block before anything is a great advantage.
Control on what you do or what you wish too do is really up too you. Keeping calm. Either playing there hand and adding your own will grab extra points.
Your down fall against these type of guys would be them, getting used to you and handling you as they wish.

Control....
Loop.... Loop.... And vary a heavy push will wear these type of guys down, remember, foot work is key to these guys also too miss easy shots.

Close to table players are rather more predictable and an odd stronge attack will show a pop up for a put away.
Cheers.

Mm

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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2009, 14:46 
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Most people use this on their backhand, and are pretty much giving up all ability to attack on that side. Use my short pips to give a low dead ball to their anti/LP and then attack whatever comes back with as much as I can muster and still keep the ball on the table. Serve low and dead. Return serve low and dead.

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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2009, 16:47 
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sometimes you can hit it higher especialy to thier backhand

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PostPosted: 15 Aug 2009, 20:11 
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I usually power spin it real hard to their LP/Anti side. Most of the time, the blade is too fast to contain the pace, and without doing anything special, the ball tends to float back or go outside.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2009, 18:57 
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A lot depends on the quality of your LP blocker opponent. There are quite a lot of generalisations and assumptions about what they can or cannot do. The point is what can you do if they are able to do all those that you assume a "typical" blocker can't do. Perhaps there have been some influence from seeing videos of LP blockers out there. Believe me when I say good LP blockers do not necessarily play like Wetzler. With no disrespect to John, in many other countries, especially in the Far East, good LP blockers block, serve and attack better (yes, on the FH side as well).

The point is that there should not be a set formula or shot routine to play against a certain type of player. What if he changes his game mid way? What if you are not able to execute what you set out to do in the way that you wanted to? If everyone was to play the same way every time, this would be quite a dull game. The key to playing any opponent is to play to your strengths and play to his weakness and minimise the impact of the stronger parts of his game. Sounds easy but terribly hard to accomplish, for some may not even know what the relative strengths and weaknesses of his and his opponent's games are. And we are not even talking about proper shot selection and execution yet :)


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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2009, 22:56 
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kineticexplorer wrote:
A lot depends on the quality of your LP blocker opponent. There are quite a lot of generalisations and assumptions about what they can or cannot do. The point is what can you do if they are able to do all those that you assume a "typical" blocker can't do. Perhaps there have been some influence from seeing videos of LP blockers out there. Believe me when I say good LP blockers do not necessarily play like Wetzler. With no disrespect to John, in many other countries, especially in the Far East, good LP blockers block, serve and attack better (yes, on the FH side as well).

The point is that there should not be a set formula or shot routine to play against a certain type of player. What if he changes his game mid way? What if you are not able to execute what you set out to do in the way that you wanted to? If everyone was to play the same way every time, this would be quite a dull game. The key to playing any opponent is to play to your strengths and play to his weakness and minimise the impact of the stronger parts of his game. Sounds easy but terribly hard to accomplish, for some may not even know what the relative strengths and weaknesses of his and his opponent's games are. And we are not even talking about proper shot selection and execution yet :)


Good post, and I do agree. Still it is highly valuable to discuss common strategies that do work against a certain stereo-type of player, as these are things we can try, and build on or modify when people do change their game...

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PostPosted: 11 Aug 2011, 13:11 
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Flat hit with my pips into their pips, Then kill the pop-up. Or drive it deep into the forehand, forcing an uncomfortable chicken-wing shot.

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2011, 21:00 
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Lots of backspin to the lp ox side will cause pop ups, net balls, and long balls.

When I say lots I mean a heavy backhand chop from another chopper using inverted on his bh who knows how to vary backspin with float and topspin, varying the arc as well (including high arc backspins that will pop off your pips, which you will misjudge). (not simple backhand pushes with light backspin)

If you practice against a robot you'll know that chopping back high backspin balls is tough work with ox lp since the lps flatten out the path and there is danger of netting or chopping long..

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PostPosted: 22 Aug 2011, 00:35 
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HITnRUN wrote:
Lots of backspin to the lp ox side will cause pop ups, net balls, and long balls.

When I say lots I mean a heavy backhand chop from another chopper using inverted on his bh who knows how to vary backspin with float and topspin, varying the arc as well (including high arc backspins that will pop off your pips, which you will misjudge). (not simple backhand pushes with light backspin)

If you practice against a robot you'll know that chopping back high backspin balls is tough work with ox lp since the lps flatten out the path and there is danger of netting or chopping long..


It depends what they are using. There is a huge difference in a rubber like Friendship 837 and Feint Long 3. I like the heavy backspin strategy that some times works, but a good player will be usually able to hit with his long pips or maybe even loop with them. There is also the topspin push (or bump shot).

My point is to keep you spin pure in other words if you are looping straight topspin make sure there isn't any sidespin, the weirder the ball you send to the opponent, the stranger the ball he gives you back on the return! Also many of these players like to cover the table with their backhand so make them go all the way to the forehand side of the table! This can become uncomfortable. Really good players may twiddle though....

Ian

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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2011, 10:44 
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Hello Ian:

I'm still decoding your words of wisdom so I might need to edit this post later....

My coach chops the ball (back or top) so that he finishes his bh chop stroke with his elbow pointing straight up. There is a hughe amount of time that his old, thick dhs rubber spends imparting back-side spin. He launches this shot from two feet behind the table off of a top spin that i just gave him. The arc of his return is high because he knows that I do not run around my bh a lot and that I want to use my trusty 755 ox. But when I chop with blade face parallel to the table, it scoots off my pips, often long to his left depending on his amount and type of spin.

MOST new choppers will experience this result - the solution to this scenerio is to do the exact chop back to him!

Still reading your posts, are u a ping-pong physicist of some sort :)

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PostPosted: 26 Aug 2011, 17:23 
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Quote:
It depends what they are using. There is a huge difference in a rubber like Friendship 837 and Feint Long 3.


got the 837 in ox 1.0 and FL2 and Soft - feint has soft slow top sheet, 837 is fast with sponge off the top of my mind...I'll go down to see my robot for a 5 min hit with both to freshen my memory...my coach uses double inverted to create his own spin and is a master of backspin chops and pushes, his high arcing chops are like backspin loops! he annoys a lot of players...

Quote:
I like the heavy backspin strategy that some times works, but a good player will be usually able to hit with his long pips or maybe even loop with them.

-but if it is high would you step back or take it off the bounce? its hard to hit high balls from the backhand for me at least i step back and try to craddle chop it to absorb the spin and speed due to the height, it goes back as a nospin which he expets and he leans in for a quick flat smash. I dont even feel the reversal off my pips like i would if he just backspin pushed and i pushed back. But now i've got out of that trap and just go with the sme stroke that he uses when he sends his back-side chop to me. there are other strokes like a side swipe or just simply lifting and adjusting the angle of your chop to get out of this predicament but an inexperience chopper with pips who is used to chopping forward against top or back spin will have a headache.

Quote:
There is also the topspin push (or bump shot).

-easier done on lower balls but he uses a lot of high arcing shots to tease me
-easier if the chop is pure side spin ie football spinnning to me in a spiral so that the spin axis points to me


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My point is to keep you spin pure in other words if you are looping straight topspin make sure there isn't any sidespin,

-if someone side-top me from his right corner to my right corner, fh to fh, i would compensate by aiming up the line
-i would like to do this but this requires recognition of spin and thats individual experience

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 20:05 
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If his chops are bouncing above net height you should be able to pick hits these with the 837. Try aiming at his elbow to make his "chop offense" uncomfortable. If these are always high loopy type chops, run around and loop them with your forehand.

One disadvantage as a chopper is you are almost always giving your opponent the ability to take ball with his forehand. Unless he is giving you a deep driving chop ala Panagiotis Gionis you should be able to run around and take the ball with your forehand. Once my opponent gives me a forehand, I am not giving it back.

Other idea-twiddle: and start taking the ball below table height, let it drop-dont take the high chop bait. Spin one with the inverted, then if he chops, scoop it with the long pips. Instead of trying to power through him, start playing chess (word of warning-at the beginning you will lose more than you win with a more experienced player).

Try a sequence of : High high chop, you inverted loop, he chops it back-loop it again, he chops it, you "scoop" it with LP's, he chops that, you inverted push it-all shots going into his switch point. When you inverted push it, he will have a very difficult time giving you his loopy chop, this is the ball to pick hit with 837 or faux spin with FL 3 (for me). repeat

Let me know if this works,

Ian

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 23:06 
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i found that when playing with LP, when some one gives you a short chop which i tend to somewhat push/chop the ball seems to pop up and carry on the other side as topspin.. which can be driven to a finish

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