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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2009, 19:59 
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Smack Attack!
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This is another style I don't play very well against. I lack the speed to blast my first attack past them, so I always give them opportunity to counter what ever I throw at them. Still, my tactic would be to keep it short, since he isn't likely to open up


Keeping is short might sometimes might allow them to keep it short back and then you have nothing to key off ,So I would definetly mix it up by doing fast no spin serves, (it gives them nothing)
sidespin serves (harder to block against)
sneakly twiddle and use the long pimple tehehe

In a rally I would vary the shots as much as possible using:
Long loops (I don't loop too often)
side spin and reverse sise spin drives
and when I smack it (I try and make bruise on his tummy)

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PostPosted: 18 Aug 2009, 20:19 
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If I can't overpower them, hitting with the long pips would cross them up, because when they go to counter-hit, it wouldn't act like they would expect it to and would increase their error percentage.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2009, 04:53 
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A counterhitter tends to feed of your speed and spin, so as an attacker giving less of this by using rolls and blocks can upset their timing and then it's a case of picking the right ball to go for with either speed, spin depth or an angle. I think it's a case of testing the counter hitter to see if slow and spinny does anything, if fast and not spinny works or fast and spinny works, it'll depend on their and your relative strengths. Also by giving them less they may lose patience and try to open up first giving you an opportunity to counter them.
So I like the general tactic of robbing them of speed and spin and testing them out in each area, the use of fades or hooks could take them out of postion too.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2009, 05:29 
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These guys can't play pips and anti to well, so it's a advantage... :D :D

Me I would attack wide all the time, sidespin on the loop to create more angles would work better.
I agree they tend to borrow the pace of the ball, but it needs to get with in there hitting zone. Making them run and fall over would come back more like blocks. I would still try to vary the spin on the ball, I think landing it near to the white line at the back of the court works better but it's hard for me to do.

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PostPosted: 19 Aug 2009, 06:26 
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speedplay wrote:
Still, my tactic would be to keep it short, since he isn't likely to open up, until I get a slightly higher ball to attack, then try to attack his body rather then the corners, go for all speed and no spin in the attacks to begin with. If he begins to figure this out, then change and go for spin instead of speed.

I am a counter hitter - SP backhand, inverted forehand. This is exactly what I want you to do. I'm up to the table so I feed off your pace. I want to be able to use short strokes which I can do if you give me pace. What is really hard is generating your own place when you're up to the table. If you want to get into a short pushing game I'm happy for that too - I back myself to force a pop up ball from you first - if you win the point with a short game its more likely to be me running out of patience than you forcing a pop up.

What I don't like playing against are people who:
1. don't put the ball back in the same vacinity - vary it even if it's only slightly. My footwork is poor so I'll sway to play the shot rather than move onto position.
2. like antipip said, people who use heavy slow spin sots - anything with pace be it spin or just plain speed feeds me
3. again like antipip said dead rolled balls hurt me. As a counter "HITTER" I don't generate lots of topspin so I really have to be on my game to attack these balls. On my pips side dead balls, or slow rolled balls are even harder for me to deal with as the ball can sometimes just fall off the pimples into the net or I can make mistakes trying to initiate pace in a rally.
4. people who are patient

As for the type of spin you use on your serve, I don't think that is style dependent. It depends on your ability to read and handle spin. Where serving can make a difference is the length, speed and placement of the serve. Often I will use a fast deep serve to instigate pace in the rally.

In my experience, to sum up, I hate it when I get slow heavily spun balls or constant variations in spin and speed so I can't get in to a rhythm and am moved around.


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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2009, 01:32 
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The way I play vs Counterhitters is that I use loop most of the time with heavy spin as well as using my angles. I don't go for speed unless I know for sure I can end the point right there (Counterhitters love fast balls because they can block it fast and you won't be ready for the next ball).

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PostPosted: 20 Aug 2009, 05:43 
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Ha Ha. Speedplay's "Stiga Babe" is a super solid close to the table counterhitter who uses MEDIUM PIPS! She has given fits to a USATT 1900 LP/MP allround player. She might not be too bothered by LPs. Some can time it, some can't. Some can't handle heavy spin deep, some make you pay for that shot. Some give you something to blast at a good angle. I prettty much have to discover for myself what is working for that certain opponent. This is one of the styles I HATE playing agianst. I like playing close to the table, but fast loop pushes and blocks, not get into a hyper speed hitting contest in close quarters that I have little chance of winning.

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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2009, 01:59 
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speedplay wrote:
Debater, strange how you claim this is what you want me to do, cause this is what works best for me.

You asked about what "we" as individuals do, I replied how it affected me and what tactics worked against me. As I'm talking about myself here, it's not a claim it's a fact. :wink:

As for playing in to corners, my reach doesn't allow me to play a proper shot without having to move to those corners and being up to the table I have less time to move. As I don't move well - to play a wide shot for me - usually means I'm off balance. If I try and blast one of these back and it's a winner there is an element of luck in it - for me. If I get one on and you get it back you'll win the point as I won't be in position to get the next ball back. That means going for an outright winner for me to a wide return from you would be a risky shot. Playing wide as I understand it, doesn't just mean to the corners - wide can mean anywhere from the net to the corner of the table.

As for playing against spin - heavy spin - I find it hard to deal with this up to the table especially high looping slow heavy loops and if you mix heavy and light spin even harder to play against - again for me. As a counter hitter I want consistency and to get in to a routine not constant variety.

As for aiming for the body - yes that would stop me swinging at it - and if it's in to the pocket / playing elbow it will give me problems, but this is a tactic I'd employ against any style. However, if you are using pace into my body, I don't need to swing at it - your pace means I can use it back against you. All I need to do to punch block the ball back with slight changes in wrist angle and as it's a compact stroke there is less to go wrong which means it's a higher percentage shot for me to play than swinging at a wide one.

Horses for courses.


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PostPosted: 21 Aug 2009, 03:56 
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1) Test your technical serve and receive game against theirs ...... especially short over the table tactics. Try to ensure that you get the first strong attack in off your serve by really good variation of serve and perfect control of length. Serve so that the return is giving you the option of attacking on 3rd / 5th ball to either of their wings / middle i.e. keep em guessing. Try and receive short.

2) If you can't gain an advantage at short game ....... counter hitters have a small zone of 'pace' that they are not comfortable against. Its different for every one ..... play too slowly and they smash, play too quickly and they just play on instinct and counter hit with interest. If you can find the right steady roll (not too much spin / not too much pace) they will just block. You have to wait and keep doing this off both wings with control until you get your chance ...... consistency is essential. If they have given you length and you have created a gap then the sidespin loop comes in handy as a surprise.

3) Final tactic is to just keep pushing long to their BH (righty to righty). Utter patience is required plus variation of backspin. I've beaten 2 sided short pips players this way but you must keep a really good length and just pin them down on both hips or off their BH side. You will have to run around the BH pretty regularly on the right push to try and FH loop with good spin (mostly back into their wide BH / crossover) just to show they can't push soft. You won't win all of these but with perseverance you can come out the 3-2 winner.


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