OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Chinese or Euro/Jap rubber
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Author:  Servio [ 27 Jan 2007, 23:05 ]
Post subject:  Chinese or Euro/Jap rubber

There are 2 groups in which rubbers often get seperated.
1 is the traditional chinese and the other the euro/jap rubber.

Traditional Chinese rubbers are rubber with a rather hard sponge and a tacky topsheet.
In contrast Euro/Jap rubbers are often referred to as soft sponged rubbers with a grippy topsheet.

The advantages of the Chinese rubbers compared to the euro/jap rubbers are:
-You can generate more spin more easily due to the tacky topsheet.
-Due to the hard sponge there is a higher speed potential.

The advantages of Euro/Jap rubbers compared to Chinese ones:
-Due to the softer more elastic sponge it is more forgiving in mistakes.
-It absorbs glue better.
-The touch factor is often better because the ball pentrates the soft sponge better.

Some diffrences that could either be an advantage or disadvantage depending on your playing style:
-Euro/Jap rubbers have more of a trampolina effect.
-Traditional Chinese rubbers are heavier.
-Chinese rubbers require a more horizontal looping motion due to the tacky topsheet where the Euro/Jap rubbers allow you a more diagonal motion.

-Chinese rubbers are generally more effected by the opponents spin.
-Chinese quality countrol isn't great so one sheet can be completely diffrent to the next.

Today there are Chinese producers who make more euro/jap like rubbers and the other way around so if a rubber comes from an chinese compagny it does not have to be a traditional chinese rubber.

Author:  New Player [ 30 Apr 2007, 12:57 ]
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-Chinese rubbers require a more horizontal looping motion due to the tacky topsheet where the Euro/Jap rubbers allow you a more diagonal motion.

Hi Servio, can you explain more on this because I don't really understand what do you mean as "horizontal v. diagonal" motion ?

The thing is I am learning forehand loop using Chinese and Europe rubber and I think the Chinese rubber is easier due to tackier surface but I don't really understand the different motions you mention. :?:

Author:  New Player [ 30 Apr 2007, 16:52 ]
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Looping with a non tacky rubber requires that the ball is forced into the sponge which usually mean that you have to use more power and closing the blade angle to keep the ball on the table.

Most new players will find it to be far easier to create spin with tacky rubbers but if the correct stroke techniq is used I belive that there isn't much difference in the ability to create spin. I prefer non tacky rubbers, not because I good enough to create all the spin I need, rather that I'm less affected by incoming spin with them.

well speedplay thanks for your explanation, I believe someone has mentioned also in another thread that's the diff between European and Chinese loop. But, based on your description on the European loop that requires use of more power and closing of the blade, I think it is very hard to differentiate the forehand loop and drive - because when you do drive, you also imparted a little topspin to the ball. Can you give me more explanation how to differentiate or perform both strokes differently ?

Also, can you explain why and how the non-tacky rubbers are less affected by incoming spin ? I thought only anti-spin and LP rubbers that can eliminate the spin-effect from opponent ?

Author:  Shoebox9 [ 30 Apr 2007, 18:11 ]
Post subject: 

New Player,

In my opinion several of Sernio's statements were incorrect. Don't get too worried if they appear to contridict what you are experiencing.

Over the table I really like tacky rubbers for their ability to generate lots of underspin when "pushing" low balls. Also your ability to use your opponents spin is greater- ie their underspin push grips your rubber and helps you create an even nastier underspin push back- with a deceivingly small contact. This forces them to keep track of their own spin more- another thing for your opponent to be distracted by.

Away from the table I like soft euro/japanese rubbers much more. They are far easier to loop with, and I find I can create much more spin with the softer rubbers, than with hard tacky stuff. This is probably because I developed my strokes using Euro rubbers, so I just can't get anything like the same soft of spin (away from the table) when using the hard Chinese stuff.

However, some people post saying they learnt to loop with hard tacky rubbers and can generate more spin with them... Regardless of the spin argument, soft rubbers give a greater margin for error when looping. It's just so easy :-)

My current solution- use soft Euro rubbers with Spinmax (a fluid you rub on your rubber to make it tacky). TT equipment is a huge and exciting world to explore! Enjoy.

Author:  tiwaz [ 30 Apr 2007, 18:35 ]
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speedplay wrote:
Looping with tacky rubbers allowa for you to simple brush the ball with a very open blade angle. The spin is created from the tacky topsheet.

Looping with a non tacky rubber requires that the ball is forced into the sponge which usually mean that you have to use more power and closing the blade angle to keep the ball on the table.

I think this is a bit over simplified and misleading, so I think I better offer my opinion on this.

Both strokes are basically the same with only small differences in bat angle and motion, depending on the equipment used and of course personal style.

With chinese style tacky rubber, the looping action requires more forwards motion with a more closed bat to achieve a fast, low, spinny ball. A more open action can be used against slower balls to create slower spinny balls, or against backspin. But against fast loops, opening the bat face is suicide. You won't get any spin and the ball will go into the net or over the edge. During fast topspin rallies, you probably won't notice any major differences in the stroke used.

Against underspin, I think it's probably more of the opposite. Chinese style rubbers require more upwards and euro looks to be more forwards. It all depends on the sponge hardness, topsheet tackiness and throw angle or the rubbers.

I don't really have the time to go into more detail.

My coach uses euro rubbers and I use chinese, and our techniques are basically the same.

Author:  New Player [ 30 Apr 2007, 19:41 ]
Post subject: 

Thank you for all explanations from you guys. Yeah I found you get more excited when you want to lift your game and looks for equipments that can help :)

I think I get some of your explanation because I also feel that with my Chinese tacky rubber it is easier to create more speedy low loop compared to slower-higher-more kicking ones. Maybe once I master my loop technique I should try Jap/Euro rubber to compare. Tiwaz, speedplay, shoebox can you tell me your favorite soft rubber to loop with.

Btw shoebox I saw a player applying some kind of cream on the rubbers before match two weeks ago - I think that must be the Spinmax you said. Where can I find such thing in Aussie :?:

Author:  haggisv [ 30 Apr 2007, 19:56 ]
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That cream would be a cleaning foam. Spinmax is a clear liquid.

Author:  tiwaz [ 30 Apr 2007, 22:11 ]
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I currently use Globe Prize Liqin 45 deg and 729 SP transcend 42/45 deg, not soft by any means. The globe is better. Same speed and spin, similar hardness, better control. Plus it's $8 cheaper. The 729 topsheet looks smoother at first, but there's no playability difference. The two topsheets otherwise look exactly the same, but I don't know about the pip structure. I will be ordering the globe in the future. A warning though: the globe is very hard to stick on to your blade, the edges curl up, even when I have about 15 books, a glass cutting board and an iron on top of it.

Author:  haggisv [ 30 Apr 2007, 22:23 ]
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Wow that's quite a weight on the bat. You might need some stronger glue or a few more layers instead. Rubber cement is the strongest I use, undiluted it's very strong...

Interesting comparison between the two rubber... you're right a LiQin is a lot cheaper... and if you find it;s better too, it's a real bonus... it's not a well known rubber...

Author:  tiwaz [ 01 May 2007, 12:05 ]
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Indeed, Alex.

Regarding the gluing..

I think I tried following the proceedures I found on your guide. I always put two layers of glue on the rubber and one on the blade every attempt, and left it under pressure for at least 60 mins.

I used what remained of my rubberdine on my first attempt, then a tube of Powerglue the second. Both of these glues seemed to be pretty old, the rubberdine from a few years back and the powerglue was in a bargain bin, and was mostly filled with air. I was able to play with it after this and found it to be similar to the 729 but with greater control, but I was unhappy when a massive portion near the handle started to lift up.

I noticed when gluing that the edges weren't firmly pressing down against the blade even with all that weight on it.

Then I ordered a tin of Victory glue and after two further attempts, I finally got the edges to stick by balancing two piles of books on the rubber, so the center of the force of both piles was more towards the edges. I left it for several hours.

I ended up having to cut a bit more off the sheet because of all the expanding. It doesn't really feel much softer than I remember it being after the first two attempts.

The 729 on the other hand, stuck after my first attempt with the rubberdine, but I peeled it off and restuck it with several layers of the new glue just to be sure.

Next time I'll order a bat clamp.

Author:  haggisv [ 01 May 2007, 12:32 ]
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yes I used to have the same trouble with using books. If they're not balanced right, some parts are not compressed enough. A bat pres is the way to go. You can make them yourself quite easily if you want to save a few $$. I've never used rubberdine or Powerglue, are they rubber cement as well?

Author:  Silver [ 01 May 2007, 13:05 ]
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I found Nittaku Rubberdine to be really, really thick. Dried far too quickly for my liking - couldn't spread it evenly before it dried.

Author:  haggisv [ 01 May 2007, 13:12 ]
Post subject: 

OK, didn't realise that was a proper glue... sounds like something you'd get from the hardware store...

Author:  Silver [ 01 May 2007, 14:47 ]
Post subject: 

You can buy it from Rebel - Geoff Henry (CST) supplies it to them.

http://www.aussietabletennis.com/?Nav=P ... brand_id=8

Author:  haggisv [ 01 May 2007, 15:28 ]
Post subject: 

Ok... yes Geoff's got good connections! Amazing how he got sole rights in AU for 4 different brands!

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