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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 06:52 
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Blade: Nittaku Barwell Fleet
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FWIW I think the Nittaku balls are the best for spin.... with the DHS balls somewhere second perhaps.

Interesting to hear Ragnolo's solution. I also find Dtecs too fast with my blade (it's fine on a slow blade, but I want a fast blade for my FH side, and there's more reversal with a faster blade). I'm currently using Hellfire OX. Tried Dtecs with 0.5mm stock sponge, but still too quick. The Toni sponge might be a good option!

As for me, well I briefly tried glanti, but very quickly decided it wasn't for me. I'm too used to LP play, and the lesser spin of the new balls seems like it disadvantages glanti more than it disadvantages LP.

My other solution is not to try to outspin my opponents on the FH, rather outhit them - power and accuracy with SP. This has been a very good move.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 07:27 
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I'm using somewhat grippier rubbers on my FH and trying to incorporate more attacking strokes on my BH using either LP or anti. My BH style is still primarily passive defence but I feel that playing a bit more actively and aggressively is helpful since I can't rely as much on passive reversal and spin variation. It doesn't yet come naturally to me but my aim is to improve my BH attack and possibly switch to medium pimples.

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Last edited by Dusty054 on 20 Nov 2017, 07:42, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 07:41 
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I have been thinking of tryin lp ox as well. I am rather curious about Spinlords latest (Strahlkraft) and to try it on my Invictus blade. But before I buy anything I will move my Agenda (need to get rid of the sponge forst) to that blade and see how it works.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 11:09 
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Def-attack wrote:
I have been thinking of tryin lp ox as well. I am rather curious about Spinlords latest (Strahlkraft) and to try it on my Invictus blade. But before I buy anything I will move my Agenda (need to get rid of the sponge forst) to that blade and see how it works.


I've tried a few LP's in OX (including Agenda) and found some that I'm quite capable with against lower level players but did not do well in a tournament against higher level players. I'm not yet proficient enough with LP's (coming from anti) to use the more deceptive ones and also had trouble blocking without the buffering effect of sponge (my ALL+ to OFF- blades may not have helped). Anyway for the time being I've found that relatively slow and soft pimples on the thinnest sponge is the best compromise.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 15:00 
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Def-attack wrote:
But before I buy anything I will move my Agenda (need to get rid of the sponge forst)

Nooo, don't do that! :n: :lol:

With plastic ball I lost 100 rating points, mostly because disturbance of ox pips has gone. My solution was sponged pips and Agenda 1.0 is best solution so far. Why?

The problem with ox pips in the middle level tournament play is the certain lack of control (same problem with glanti, I suppose). If you go to a pushing war or something like that, the ox player will make mistake - for no special reason - sooner or later. With new balls pushing type of war have become much more secure for the inverted players. And in the middle level you bump to lot of players, who can push all day and when they find out that you will make the first mistake, they just stop spinning and attacking.

With Agenda 1.0 I feel very comfortable in the long slow rallies and the sponge gives more variation of spin and adding the spin, so the opponent is not too comfortable. With ox and new balls the spin is just too predictable, althought the difference in spin is not big, it is meaningfull.

Last tournament I played, somewhere I noticed that my FH attack didn't work at all. Area was dark and I couldn't see well and I was tired. And I was down like 0-2 against lower rated players. So I started to just push very carefully and actually won the games thanks to security of my pips. I never could have done that with ox and tired.

I have tried (once again) my Firewall+ balsa blade for actice ox pips disturbance play. It gives really effective and fast shots, but lots of mistakes too. And it feels that reducing easy mistakes is a way to go with new balls instead of more reversal or disturbance in middle level of tournament play.

The ox play is still an option in (1) lower levels and (2) if you have aggressive style and strong FH attack to follow (3) if you don't go far from table or (4) you got mad ox skills like the Pushblocker. But if you are more allround or defensive player, I think that sponge is way to go with new balls.


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 19:34 
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Pushing wars!? No offence, but what level do you consider to be mid level? Pushing wars happen between players who can't or lack confidence or footwork to open up. I don't think I've seen or played a "pushing war" game for about 3 divisions.

Golden rule: don't push a push!

A push to my fh or middle will be spun up 98% of the time, and I'll be looking to get on the attack immediately. More than two pushes into my bh will result in my opening up with fh topspin from the bh corner.

Seriously - unless you are a very passive player, pushing wars should just never happen if you can move and open up against push/chop.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 21:37 
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LordCope wrote:
Pushing wars!? No offence, but what level do you consider to be mid level? Pushing wars happen between players who can't or lack confidence or footwork to open up. I don't think I've seen or played a "pushing war" game for about 3 divisions.

Golden rule: don't push a push!

A push to my fh or middle will be spun up 98% of the time, and I'll be looking to get on the attack immediately. More than two pushes into my bh will result in my opening up with fh topspin from the bh corner.

Seriously - unless you are a very passive player, pushing wars should just never happen if you can move and open up against push/chop.


Have you not seen Joo Se Hyuk play? Against Samsonov for example?

Anyway, I also use pushes more now. With this ball it is not enough to serve a back spin BH serve and block the attack, you need to serve it short to generate a push and than (before you twiddle back) push again to FH to get an attack you can block. When doing this I realized many had problems reading the spin with this ball, so many pushed back to the net or long. Also I noticed that I often could keep inverted on BH for awhile and wait until the other attacked before I twiddled back. After serve I also tried first a long push to deep BH and then a long push to deep FH. That made me win many points without having to get into my own game plan. So aggressive pushing is actually not bad at all with this ball.

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 03:06 
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Def-attack wrote:
With this ball it is not enough to serve a back spin BH serve and block the attack, you need to serve it short to generate a push and than (before you twiddle back) push again to FH to get an attack you can block.


I guess we're talking about different things. I'm not saying there's a problem with two pushes on the BH... a pushing war, in my mind, is dozens of pushes. Sure sometimes I will serve, and push a push to get a better ball to attack, but I won't allow myself to be "pinned into my bh" by a player pushing into my BH. Maybe I misunderstood Roy, and he means something different.

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 03:21 
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LC I don't think you really misunderstood Roy exactly, I just think maybe you don't grasp the strategy that can come from good pushing especially with pips. Pushing allows you to keep the ball short, so a looper can't open up, and it allows a variation of spins so mistakes can be made by the opponent. We are talking aggressive pushing here, not lollipop pushes. And I know pip players who can push a ball so fast that the opponent can't even reach it...in fact I played a guy tonight who is great at it. I even carry it off myself sometimes :lol: My teammate is great at it with his J-Pen style...its more of an aggressive attacking push against underspin though. With my Sh styl I'm nowhere near as effective as his J-Pen style push is though. The ball comes really fast and awkward to return. As effective or more than an inverted smash. It takes good technique for all of it though...more advanced than looping generally.

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 04:53 
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Hmm... I think I understand that aspect of LP play - I do it myself (to the best of my ability). It was the term 'pushing war' that conjured up images of a pair of lowly local league players pushing at each other 47 times until someone finally nets a ball, or takes a risk.

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 06:47 
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LordCope wrote:
Hmm... I think I understand that aspect of LP play - I do it myself (to the best of my ability). It was the term 'pushing war' that conjured up images of a pair of lowly local league players pushing at each other 47 times until someone finally nets a ball, or takes a risk.

u been watching my matches ;)

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 06:50 
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LordCope wrote:
Hmm... I think I understand that aspect of LP play - I do it myself (to the best of my ability). It was the term 'pushing war' that conjured up images of a pair of lowly local league players pushing at each other 47 times until someone finally nets a ball, or takes a risk.


Oh god! The horror of it all! :lol:

At least with anti, I never found myself stuck in a pushing war. Even short pushes over the table can be bumped/attacked back with the anti. That's one reason I always carry a lingering craving for anti... being able to attack any back spin ball, even low spin ones, with the anti side. I even try to do a 'modern defense' style with that -- by chopping on the forehand until a heavy push comes back, then running in and slapping it hard with the anti for a winner.

For the anti players, do you not serve super heavy back spin short on the table? Get a heavy push back, then wack it with the anti side?


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 07:26 
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skilless_slapper wrote:
LordCope wrote:
Hmm... I think I understand that aspect of LP play - I do it myself (to the best of my ability). It was the term 'pushing war' that conjured up images of a pair of lowly local league players pushing at each other 47 times until someone finally nets a ball, or takes a risk.

For the anti players, do you not serve super heavy back spin short on the table? Get a heavy push back, then wack it with the anti side?


I used to do that but attacking back spin requires back spin. And that can be a little tricky with ABS balls. Sometimes very little spin from pushes - and attack with anti goes long...

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:05 
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Def-attack wrote:
I used to do that but attacking back spin requires back spin. And that can be a little tricky with ABS balls. Sometimes very little spin from pushes - and attack with anti goes long...


One method to address that might be to use an anti that is not quite as friction-less. Just a little spin can help to bring the ball down a bit shorter.

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:36 
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Dusty054 wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
I used to do that but attacking back spin requires back spin. And that can be a little tricky with ABS balls. Sometimes very little spin from pushes - and attack with anti goes long...


One method to address that might be to use an anti that is not quite as friction-less. Just a little spin can help to bring the ball down a bit shorter.



I think you'd want even LESS spin for that shot. The more backspin you can convert to topspin, the easier that shot is. The ABS lack spin, so the anti has less to convert, but if you had an even smoother surface... then more of the backspin would become topspin.

I find with the MP/LP that I use now, the incoming backspin ball that I used to hit flat through on with the anti -- does what def mentions above, and floats long off the table. Then I had to listen to all the 'experts' around telling me a ball that low with backspin cannot be attacked... :?: :eyeroll:

When I knew that using mega-block or other slick antis, I can easily pop those back over with pace. People use so many different balls around here it's a bit a roll of the dice, never know which one will be on the table or its condition. So the more I think about it, the more I'd like to use anti again just for those attacking shots.

Is there any LP that is able to replicate the flanti's ability to attack backspin? I've got badman, saviga, pogo, and some others. Those will work but even more backspin is required. Maybe mega-block in .6 sponge? I really just like the aggressive backspin attacks, and after going on a bit of a losing spree with the MP/LP when trying to play with my old method, I didn't realize how integral that shot was to my game. But it seems to get that ability, your anti has to block fairly slowly against heavy top spin because it's all converted to back spin, and has the associated effect. And I somewhat lose the ease of blocking long/fast with MP/LP... arg!


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