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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 11:47 
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I had fun attacking backspin with Dornenglanz...

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 12:02 
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Yes backspin is what I look for before attacking with LP or anti. I use the existing spin to my advantage. That's classic anti. I have no experience with flanti. Dead balls are more difficult though I find it helps if I can impart a little of my own spin, or flat hit if it's high enough.

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 13:11 
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Recently played against Grass Dtecs OX player who was chop-blocking close to the table. The chop-blocked return was coming back almost skidding and low which felt weird to me. If I am loading the ball with spin, shouldn't there be some amount of reversal from LP OX close to the table?

Now when I was looping the ball would arc high and too long. Is this an effect of less spin/ no spin on the plastic ball ? Can someone explain it ? How do I correct for it? Do I just push it back and try looping the next ball ?


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 13:25 
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man_iii wrote:
Recently played against Grass Dtecs OX player who was chop-blocking close to the table. The chop-blocked return was coming back almost skidding and low which felt weird to me. If I am loading the ball with spin, shouldn't there be some amount of reversal from LP OX close to the table?

Now when I was looping the ball would arc high and too long. Is this an effect of less spin/ no spin on the plastic ball ? Can someone explain it ? How do I correct for it? Do I just push it back and try looping the next ball ?



Sounds like a no-spin or less spin than you anticipated if it's going high/long. That's what most people do with my no-spin balls. They over hit and go high n' long! You can try to hit more through the ball like a drive or add more spin with a more closed angle. If it is the low spin ball, just know that it won't 'bite' into your rubber so when it comes off flat, it will be a kind of floater -- hence why your return goes sailing off, no spin to help keep it under control. That's my armchair analysis just going by your words :lol:


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 14:28 
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Thanks! So its more a no-spin / less-spin return! I will try that!

Any advice on how to get more grip on the ball ? Or the loop-drive with closed angle the only way I am going to keep the ball on the table ? Also how can I keep the ball from going too long ? Should I brush slowly ? or a faster stroke is needed with forward direction ?

I did notice that my light-brush loop ... almost a flick, did work well but it wasn't consistent. The flick ended up in the net or brushing the net and bouncing out. Is it possible to play a safe return ? I felt the ball was coming at me a little fast and low.


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 15:27 
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LordCope wrote:
Pushing wars!? No offence, but what level do you consider to be mid level? Pushing wars happen between players who can't or lack confidence or footwork to open up. I don't think I've seen or played a "pushing war" game for about 3 divisions.

Golden rule: don't push a push!

Yes, I lack footwork and many times confidence (for the right reason) to go for FH attack in real tournament play. I also lack stamina in long tournament for continuous FH attacks.

For my part it is question of smart play through the tournament: do I get more points by attacking or is better just to wait for opponets mistake and defend? Same thinking goes also for the smart opponent.

In the practise I attack much more for fun and because of familiar opponets. I also attack with BH for fun, but in real tournaments BH attack is heavily -ev move with pips.

If two defenders are agains each other, it results often in pushing wars, because their defence is better than attack.

For me the difference between 3. and 2. division play is clear, because I have played in both. In 3. division are lot "attackers", who have some good attack shot and they go for it whenever they have remote chance for it. Not a consistent attack, but often very efficient, if it goes to table. Usually those players problem is that they don't look for good spot to attack, so they can be outplayed by smart moves. In the 2. division game is the opposite: players tend to look for the good spot to attack, so that the attack is ev+ move. If I can keep pushing difficult and good defence, opponent get less and less good spots to attack and the result is lots of pushing and other slow stuff.

LAST TOURNAMENT

In last tournament my first game was at 10 am and last game ended 20:30 pm. 10 games in total, which is above my stamina level. Luckily I got few easy wins thanks to my pips to save energy in the way.

Opponent 1. He is clearly lower rated familiar player, a wild, young and agile attacker, who have losed nearly every set against me, when I visit his club. In the tournament he went for the pushing tactics, while in practise he always attacked wildly. He said afterward, that I always outplay him if he tries too much, so he decided to try pushing. And he pushed very well. :( I was down like 1-2 in sets. It didn't feel good, because in practise I had won every set. My FH attack was not working at all for reason or a another and I lot of games coming ahead in tournament, so I couldn't get too tired of FH pounding, so I had to figure out way to win. So I concentrated on careful pushing and maked more very spinny FH pushes to his FH. He kept on pushing tactics to the end, but I won.

Opponent 2. Lower rated agile young LP defender. His defence defence is better than his attack. With my slowish FH attack I would need lot of stamina to beat him attacking, which could be possible, if I had only one game to play. But the day was young, it was just the starting pool on under 1950 rating and I didn't want to be exhausted. I got quickly 0-2 down in sets, so I decided to go for very careful pushing and eventually I won 3-2.

Opponent 3. Higher rated looper with good top spin defence. I faced him 3 times in that day, one time in pools and 2 times on finals (1950 rating and over 50 years). In first game he tried to attack a lot, but he was cold and made too many mistakes, I barely won 3-2. Second game I won 3-1, becaus my defence was better than his attack. In the third game I was more tired than him and he played smarter, waiting for a good spot to attack. I didn't have much stamina left to attack. So he pushed and pushed and only attacked easiest balls. That was the correct strategy and he won 3-1.


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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 15:39 
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Dusty054 wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
I used to do that but attacking back spin requires back spin. And that can be a little tricky with ABS balls. Sometimes very little spin from pushes - and attack with anti goes long...


One method to address that might be to use an anti that is not quite as friction-less. Just a little spin can help to bring the ball down a bit shorter.


Yes. The Gorilla har more grip and speed and is better for attacking.

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2017, 20:20 
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Roy wrote:
LordCope wrote:
Pushing wars!? No offence, but what level do you consider to be mid level? Pushing wars happen between players who can't or lack confidence or footwork to open up. I don't think I've seen or played a "pushing war" game for about 3 divisions.

Golden rule: don't push a push!

Yes, I lack footwork and many times confidence (for the right reason) to go for FH attack in real tournament play.


It's an obvious point, but you'll never develop the confidence to make a FH attack if you don't try it in tournament play.

Quote:
do I get more points by attacking or is better just to wait for opponets mistake and defend? Same thinking goes also for the smart opponent.


Sure, I get this. I've certainly won games vs LP players by simply bumping back to them, because I know I'm more consistent. But I wouldn't pick my equipment to optimise for it. It's a very rare situation, and, in order to improve, it's important to develop a strong and confident attack to overcome such players. However, I do understand there's a difference between a tournament match which I must win, and a league or practice match, where it's actually more important for me to play the "right" shot rather than the tactical shot.

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PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 00:43 
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LordCope wrote:
Hmm... I think I understand that aspect of LP play - I do it myself (to the best of my ability). It was the term 'pushing war' that conjured up images of a pair of lowly local league players pushing at each other 47 times until someone finally nets a ball, or takes a risk.

Pushing wars happen at all levels. It's a matter of getting the correct 2 styles together. A "Pushing" war between 2 attackers (or wanna be attackers) is certainly a lack of ability. But between 2 choppers, this happens all the time, up to top 200 WR.

Example, Chtchetinine vs. Josip Huzjak:


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PostPosted: 22 Nov 2017, 01:54 
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lol jap... visually, that match doesn't look much different than when I commit to a pushing rally with those other flatfoots!

But of course there's a difference here -- if you WANT to play that style, versus HAVING to play that style due to an inability to land an attack on the table!

If you're more of a classic defender, then staying in pushing wars isn't a big deal. However, if you'd like to attack the push and find you can't... should be training to do so! Even if it costs you a few tournament points... learning that skill, when under pressure, is crucial to moving on up if you desire an aggressive style. And until my wrist injury, I used to be able to backhand flick just about any ball over - short or long, spinny or dead - but now that I'm not able to wrist flick much at all for the foreseeable future... I stick the anti/LP on there so I can at least wack the pushes back with some speed still.


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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 07:53 
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slightly related to the subject, today i played with that brand new XIOM ABS ball, the blue one...

it is very different to every plastic ball i played so far...when i saw the color and heard the rocky bounce of the table, i immediately said it is a pure DHS D40 clone, but it is not...

this ball have a very rough surface, almost like its covered with sandpaper...the bounce is noticeably lower than the previous plastic i played...

but the best part was, it spinned on my flanti for almost 4 seconds on my ball spin test i always use with a new ball...

have you guys tried it, is that stiga new ball the same bcs its also ABS?

further testing needed, i played only one game, but 1st impressions were positive...

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PostPosted: 29 Nov 2017, 16:33 
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111Iceman111 wrote:
slightly related to the subject, today i played with that brand new XIOM ABS ball, the blue one...

it is very different to every plastic ball i played so far...when i saw the color and heard the rocky bounce of the table, i immediately said it is a pure DHS D40 clone, but it is not...

this ball have a very rough surface, almost like its covered with sandpaper...the bounce is noticeably lower than the previous plastic i played...

but the best part was, it spinned on my flanti for almost 4 seconds on my ball spin test i always use with a new ball...

have you guys tried it, is that stiga new ball the same bcs its also ABS?

further testing needed, i played only one game, but 1st impressions were positive...


From your description it sounds very similar to Stiga ABS, with the rough surface. It wears off after a while but it does not change the characteristics much. Donic has a ball that is about the same, Tibhar also. I think they all comes from the same (DHS) factory.

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PostPosted: 06 Dec 2017, 07:50 
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I just wrote this in my blog:
Tonight I had a short session (my partner got injured) with Neubauer Power Attack 1,5 mm on BH on a Stiga Carbonado 190 blade and Stiga Perform ball (ABS). I have to say it worked great! I could quite easily counter normal drive strokes and the return sank and had slight back spin but I could do it with ok control once I figured out how hard I should hit.

Atacking back spin was the only part where I found the Gorilla better but PA is good enough. Blocking loops is doable but may need some adjustment and speed dampening with a loos grip of the bat compared to Bison. After a few minutes I felt ok with consitency in blocks also. I never tried returning serves or any match-like playing, that will have to wait (until next week I guess).

But for now I am very satisfied with Powe Attack, it feels like I can do most of the things I could do with Bison and also attack a lot better. It feels great!

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