OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Just got the new Giant Dragon anti-spin rubbers in... they look very interesting and promising!

Topsheet on both look the same. Comes with a glue sheet. It has a thin adhesive plastic protection on the topsheet. Removing this reveals a hard topsheet with very little grip, probably less than the 804.

Got the Guard in 0.4mm and 0.8mm. The orange sponge on these feels hard and dense. It feels like a denser and harder version of the energy absorbing sponges I've seen (eg phoenix), although it does have a little spring as well. On the back cover it mention a 'perfect weapon against backspin', Do they they mean 'topspin'...

Got the Guard Special in 0.6mm and 1.2mm. The sponge on these is firm, but MUCH lighter... I expect this is very similar to the phoenix sponge. As such I would expect this one to be slower, but the rating infer it is a little faster (5.7 vs 6.3). On the back this one mentions a 'superb weapon against strong backspin and for attack as well'...

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From your initial observations which do you suppose will be the slowest?
tOD

I would guess the Guard special will be slower, since the sponge on this seems to have no spring at all. Spin reversal might be better on the Guard, especailly in 0.4mm.

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Giant dragon have just confirmed that the description on the back referred to topspin not backspin... that makes a lot more sense

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may i know which one is harder? i am looking for a hard slick anti for max reversal.

thanks.

-yori

The Guard special has one of those hard but very slow energy absorbing sponges, when you push your fingernail into it, it still dented for a short while. These tend to be slower but with less reversal in my experience. So I'd expect the Guard to have more reversal.

Straight out of the packet it does not feel that slick, but this could be due to the adhesive plastic protection sheet... I'm not sure and I've yet to try it. Since this sponges are so thin, it will get more reversal regardless, as it bottoms out very quickly. Even the 804 gets some reversal, on a (custom) 0.6mm sponge.

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Hmm Haggisv, do both of the rubber have hard slick top sheet? i think beside having thin, hard dead sponge, the top sheet should also be hard and slick for maximum reversal e.g like a topsheet which has been treated with superglue. Actually i think if the topsheet is hard and slick, the sponge can be softer but dead.

If reversal is all that matters, I agree. But the very thin sponge on these (most regular Anties don't come with a sponge this thin) helps a lot in reversal as well as control, so a little bit of grip can be beneficial in keeping the ball down and if you want to attack.

I have not yet tried them, but will try and glue one onto a blade today so that I can get some impressions.

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Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

I've just glued a sheet of Guard 0.4mm red onto a Mephisto blade.

Topsheet feels very hard
It feels quite slick, much slicker than something like 804, but not quite as slick as something like a worn in Anti Power. However a few sessions may well wear off all the grip. The sponge feels weird, like a cross between paper and rubber...it feels like it will take very little for it to bottom out.

Bounching a ball on it, it feel very slow with little spring.

I can generate some spin with it but not a lot.

Spinning up the ball with a spinny rubber and bouncing it onto the Guard, makes it grip only a little and bounces slightly sideways, nothing like an inverted rubber and more like a long pip. It took off virtually all the spin. I'm hoping that under some higher impact, this rubber will actually give some reversal similar to grippy long pips.

I'll be trying it tomorrow and will update...

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From your initial impressions it sounds like my exact findings with giant dragon giant long, the reversal is more anti like than lp but is dead slow.

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Bty Gergely Palio Macro Era 42.5 Max DHS H2 Max

I had a decent hit with it today on the Mephisto blade, and the results are quite interesting, and this rubber really does have potential. As I'm not a regular anti-player this will be just some comments, not a full review.

Guard 0.4mm red on Re-Impact Mephisto ST:
Topsheet is really hard, and it makes a real 'clancking' sound when you hit/block with it The rubber is slow and quite easy to control. You can actually generate some spin with it... more than most LPs but not like inverted. Still it can catch people off-guard and win you a few points, especailly in serves where my practice partner had a lot of trouble picking it.

Against backspin:
It's quite sensitive to backspin, more than most LPs, and most of my early ones went into the net. Even worse it's very hard to attack backspin with it, as the reversal on low impact is simply not there.
However once I worked this out I looked for other options...You can push it back very much like inverted. Push hard and it will go deep and float (very unlike inverted) which gave me practice partner trouble and made it hard to attack. Pushes are very direct so you can put it wherever you want. Push soft and drop shots are easy as this rubber is really slow.

Against topspin:
Against slow topspin it's also quite sensitive to spin too. You need to close the bat angle if you want to counterhit, and the angle is a lilttle sensitive, but if you get it right it produces a very slow and short ball, very askward and hard to attack again.
Against fast loops it truly shines... I blocked with the bat at 90deg, and everything just went on. The ball stayed low and short, very much like frictionless LP, although I'm sure the reveral was nothing like it. It was hard to see how much reversal I was getting, but I'm sure there was some. But the short and low balls often didn't come back anyway, so it was very effective. Even very hard hits stayed on the table and seemed to drop at the last moment, taking my partner by surprise as he thought it was long.

Chopping:
Chopping control was pretty good too. I could control the ball quite well against loops, although they didn't feel as loaded as with Dtecs, it felt more like chopping with frictionless OX as the feel was quite hard. Balls were kept low fairly easily. I need some more practice against a good looper ot get a better idea of this.

It did not seem particularly sensitive to sidespin although it does grip a little. some of my returns seem to curve against sidespin opposite to what I expected, producing some very awkward balls. I expect they carried just a small amount of sidespin, but because the rubber takes pace off so well, you really notice the curve.

Attacking no-spin / topspin can certainly be done as you can feel a little grip on the bat. The angle did feel a little sensitive, probably coz the topsheet is so hard, but I cracked a few nice winners with it, where the pace was obviously coming from the blade.

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Is the topsheet distincty harder than anything else or just kinda hard?

How much to ship to usa? You seem to have a world monopoly at the moment, at least for anything that comes up in an english language google search.

Very hard topsheet, very thin sponge, very slow... Seems like an ideal reversal rubber if somebody could just by some miracle acquire a sheet with very low friction

obtw- did you happen to look closely at red and black topsheets to see if there is any difference?

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It's much harder than any inverted I've seen, but not sure how it compares to some of the other anties.

Yep the friction is still a problem as it does grip at low impact. Of course it may well wear off quite quicky, as it's always grippiest when you first remove the plastic protection sheet. I think just a tiny bit of grip is good though, as it sure helps with control.

No I haven't cut a black sheet yet. I tend to think red usually had less friction, so that's the prefered one.

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Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide

is the topsheet very much harder compared to 804? If it is very much harder compare to 804, I guess we can make it even slicker by exposing it to sunlight, that should increase the reversal. A 804 illegally treated with superglue becomes very hard and slick which give insane reversal. I believe a hard slick topsheet will give very good reversal. Is the Mephisto a stiff blade? I think anti rubber need a stiff blade to be effective. Did you try the Guard Special? is the reversal better for Guard Special?

Yes the topsheet is MUCH harder than 804, I just dug up an old 804 sheet and compred.

The Mephisto is not that stiff, so you're right it may play even better on a stiff blade.

I had another short session with it, not too long since our competition is still going (but will end shortly) and i think I could really play with this rubber. Against slower and spinny loops I just need to close the bat a little, and it comes back low and very slow and controlled.

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Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Butterfly Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide