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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2010, 16:20 
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Quote:
Rubbers to be compared:
Ritc 804 red 2.0
Juic Neoanti black 2.0
Butterfly Super Anti red 2.0
Nittaku Best Anti black 2.2
Yasaka Anti power red 2.0
Hallmark Mirage red 2.0
Dr Neubauer Anti Spin Special red 1.2 (used on Galaxy T-8)

All used on the Dawei Wavestone blade.

Ratings given is only valid in this comparison and should not be translated to other rubbers abilities. Scale is 1-10, 10 being the highest.

Grip on surface:

804: 8
Neoanti: 3
Anti power: 3
Hallmark Mirage: 3
AS Special: 3
Best anti: 2
Super anti: 2

804 feels really grippy compared to the rest that all feel very slick on the surface.

Grip on/with sponge:

Best anti: 9
Neoanti: 7
804: 2
Anti power: 2
Mirage: 2
Super anti: 1
AS Special: 1

The soft sponge on the Best anti gives it a lot of grip, despite this, the Neoanti seems to out spin it when it comes to generate spin on your own. The rest of them all comes with pretty hard sponges (Mirage being the exeption) and while you can get them to grip some, it not nearly as much as Best anti and Neoanti. Not sure why the Mirage sponge don't grip the ball, probably because it is so "dead" so even if it deforms on impact, the sponge takes forever to get back to original shape, thus giving the feeling that it don't grip the ball. AS Special has by far the least grip and comes with a rock hard sponge!

Speed:

804: 10
Anti power:7
Neoanti: 5
Super Anti: 3
AS Special: 2/5!
Best Anti: 2
Mirage: 1

As the chart shows, the 804 is without a doubt the fastest of them. Super Anti and best anti are very close in terms of speed compared to each other, while Mirage is clearly the slowest of them all. AS Special is the strange one as it actually seems to come with gears. When used to block, it is dead slow, almost as slow as Mirage actually, but not quite. When used to hit, lift or even chop with, it feels a lot faster, so active play with it enhances the speed.

Spin, generating it:

Neoanti: 10
Best anti: 7
804: 5
Anti power:3
Super Anti: 2
AS Special: 2
Mirage: 2

Neoanti wins this award, hands down. Best anti is also pretty good at this, while the rest of them clearly isn't intended to create spin with.

affected by incoming spin:

804: 10
Neoanti: 4
Best anti: 3
Mirage: 2
Anti power: 2
Super Anti: 1
AS Special: 1

804 is affected like a sheet of old inverted and if you intend to go anti to aid your ability to handle spin, then forget about it! Minor differences between the others, but Super anti and AS Special are really the rubbers that seems to be totally unaffected by incoming spin. With this said, you still need to be aware of what spin you are working with, cause different spin requires different strokes.

Reversal:

Super anti: 8
AS Special: 8
Anti power: 7
Neoanti: 4
Best anti: 3
Mirage: 2
804: 1

Super anti or AS Special are clearly the ones to pick if you are looking for replacements to the frictionless long pips. Anti power also has pretty good reversal, but it's harder to get good use of it since it's faster. The rest of them really needs good help from your strokes to create any kind of reversal, unaided blocks will almost always give a dead ball back.

Aided reversal:

Neoanti: 10
Best Anti: 9
Anti power: 4
Super Anti: 3
AS Special: 2
Mirage: 2
804: 1

Neoanti and best anti are both very good at this and I believe they both play like a grippy kind of Lp. As for the rest of them, you can still chop down hard with them, but then the action is more used to deceive your opponent then to actually help the reversal. Remember, most of the time, it doesn't come down to the amount of spin/reversal you have, it is how well you manage to trick your opponent.

Deception:

Best anti: 10
Anti power: 8
Neoanti: 7
AS Special: 6
Super anti: 6
Mirage: 3
804: 1

Best anti and Anti power has one thing in common that the rest of them lack, the shots made with those rubbers look like they have been made with regular inverted, trajectory of the ball and stuff like that, this makes them very deceptive as your opponent really needs to watch your bat. Neoanti, AS Special and Super anti also has very good deception possibilities, but for different reasons. With Neoanti, it is because you can create such variation on the spin, so it will be hard for your opponent to tell how much spin their is on it and sometimes even what kind of spin it has. With the Super Anti and AS Special, the deception is more about reversal actually, since the unaided reversal does most of the trick, a heavy chop stroke might fool your opponent to think there is a lot more spin then there is, while a block might trick them to think that there is less spin then there is. Mirage and 804 really doesn't do anything here, Mirage gives a dead ball back, regardless of spin on the ball and your own stroke, while the 804 gives... Well, what do you get from an old sheet of inverted? In best case, the 804 will give a dead ball back, otherwise, it reacts like inverted but to a lesser degree.

So what styles are they suited for?

Neoanti and Best anti probably works best for chopper who prefers to back away from the table. If you intend to stick close to the table to play with these, twiddling is crucial!

Anti power is probably suitable for a hitter/blocker, as it has good speed and blocking abilities. Feels to fast to chop with good control, so stick to the table and hit incoming backspin as every day was the last! Twiddling isn't needed, all though it's always helpful for playing a deception type of game. If you don't twiddle, your opponent will soon enough learn on what side you have the anti and react to it.

Super Anti works as a frictionless replacement, close to the table, straight of the bounce, blocking is the thing here. Off course, it can be used for a surprising hit every now and then, but since the trajectory of the ball gives it away, good players will learn how to deal with this pretty quick and since it lacks the speed, don't expect to hit any outright winners with it. Twiddling will help a lot, especially if you always pick the ball off the bounce as this will feed your opponent very different types of spin and give him very little time to react upon it.

AS Special, as you might have noticed, feels very similar to Super Anti and should work for pretty much the same style. The advantage you get with AS Special is that once you decide to hit, you will be able to make faster shots then you will with the Super Anti. Downside is, the AS feels a lot less forgiving and the angles really have to be worked out on this to be effective. Then again, it seems to create the most wobbling of all the Antis I have tried, so perhaps it is worth the hassle with angles?

Mirage and 804, I really can't see which style this two would be beneficial to. The 804 might be able to play a close to the table hitting game, but let's face it, there are better rubbers for this. Mirage, probably intended to be used as Super anti, but it really hasn't got what it takes. To little reversal to be useful and unless you have to much money on your hands and feel like all you ever want to do with you Anti is to drop it short, with no spin, stay clear of this rubber.

As for me, I'm a little confused as too what I should use, Bty Super Anti or Nittaku Best Anti? Both have very good strengths, are easy to play with but demands different technique and playing styles to perform at their best. Neoanti is off course also a great rubber, but since I have tried the Super Anti and Best anti, Neoanti feels a little to fast Which is strange, since I still liked the Anti power that is clearly faster...

Now the AS Special have joined the battle for a place on my primary set up, seeing how it created more wobbling then the others, it was slow on blocks but still had the speed to put the ball away with and good reversal. I really must admit, despite those positive sides, I'm not sure it is worth the hefty price, since Super Anti comes so close in behaviour.

Any questions you might have, feel free to post them either in a separate tread or the original post and I will do my best to answer them with my experience from these rubbers.

I've created this tread and intends to continue to add antis as I try them, keeping it locked and stickied to keep it organised in one place.
NOTE: This thread is kept locked to keep things organised. Everything above has been copied from other thread (http://forums.oneofakindtrading.com.au/ ... 67&start=0) in this section, so if you wish to comment, please do so there.

Great post! Stickied :clap:

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PostPosted: 21 Nov 2011, 11:11 
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Great work on the Antis!

Very comprehensive analysis on these rubbers. I have been using Sriver Killer for the past 20 years. I have upgraded to Super Anti lately. I was considering buying an 804, just to try it out considering it cost less. Thanks to this review, I will not waste my time and cash on something that seemingly does nothing exceptionally well. Did you include a rubber from Tibhar in your review?

Again great work on your review of anti rubbers. I really appreciate your work. Thanks

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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2011, 07:16 
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Quote:
Did you include a rubber from Tibhar in your review?

The Tibhar Ellen Def is more or less like Neoanti, but slower.

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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2011, 06:51 
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stiga energy absorber???

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PostPosted: 13 Dec 2011, 15:44 
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Quote:
stiga energy absorber???
Faster than Neoanti, and grippier (almost as grippy as Tibhar Ellen), but even so relatively insensitive to incoming spin. Heavy. Hard sponge, which makes it less suitable for defensive styles away from the table, I think. IMO a block&attack anti. I didn't find it too easy to slow the ball down with, so absorbing of energy mostly refers to incoming rotation; but it also depends on the blade and I used it on a relatively fast ALL blade. Only available in black!

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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2011, 09:12 
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Kees wrote:
Quote:
stiga energy absorber???
Faster than Neoanti, and grippier (almost as grippy as Tibhar Ellen), but even so relatively insensitive to incoming spin. Heavy. Hard sponge, which makes it less suitable for defensive styles away from the table, I think. IMO a block&attack anti. I didn't find it too easy to slow the ball down with, so absorbing of energy mostly refers to incoming rotation; but it also depends on the blade and I used it on a relatively fast ALL blade. Only available in black!



thanks for your answer.

Finally, it's a nice rubber for a modern defensive player? Or is to difficult to cut a ball from the opponent and in other case to attack with this rubber?

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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2011, 15:26 
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Scorpion72:
Quote:
Finally, it's a nice rubber for a modern defensive player? Or is to difficult to cut a ball from the opponent and in other case to attack with this rubber?
Depends on what you like and how you play. It is available in 1.6 and 2.0 mm; the thinner sponge would be better for chopping and still allow attack, the thicker sponge would be better for attacking and still allow chopping. I have use the 2.0 and was able to defend with it, but I like the Tibhar Ellen Def in 1.5 I am using now much better. Maybe if I had had the Stiga in 1.6 I wouldn't have changed. As with most rubbers, you have to try it to find out if it works for you. Stiga claims it will work alright for a defender in 1.6, at any rate.

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PostPosted: 14 Dec 2011, 17:37 
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I used anti power for a while, and I found it hard to control big loops, but easy to attack serves etc

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PostPosted: 13 May 2012, 07:15 
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Joined: 10 May 2012, 00:36
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haggisv wrote:
Quote:
Rubbers to be compared:
Ritc 804 red 2.0
Juic Neoanti black 2.0
Butterfly Super Anti red 2.0
Nittaku Best Anti black 2.2
Yasaka Anti power red 2.0
Hallmark Mirage red 2.0
Dr Neubauer Anti Spin Special red 1.2 (used on Galaxy T-8)

All used on the Dawei Wavestone blade.

Ratings given is only valid in this comparison and should not be translated to other rubbers abilities. Scale is 1-10, 10 being the highest.

Grip on surface:

804: 8
Neoanti: 3
Anti power: 3
Hallmark Mirage: 3
AS Special: 3
Best anti: 2
Super anti: 2

804 feels really grippy compared to the rest that all feel very slick on the surface.

Grip on/with sponge:

Best anti: 9
Neoanti: 7
804: 2
Anti power: 2
Mirage: 2
Super anti: 1
AS Special: 1

The soft sponge on the Best anti gives it a lot of grip, despite this, the Neoanti seems to out spin it when it comes to generate spin on your own. The rest of them all comes with pretty hard sponges (Mirage being the exeption) and while you can get them to grip some, it not nearly as much as Best anti and Neoanti. Not sure why the Mirage sponge don't grip the ball, probably because it is so "dead" so even if it deforms on impact, the sponge takes forever to get back to original shape, thus giving the feeling that it don't grip the ball. AS Special has by far the least grip and comes with a rock hard sponge!

Speed:

804: 10
Anti power:7
Neoanti: 5
Super Anti: 3
AS Special: 2/5!
Best Anti: 2
Mirage: 1

As the chart shows, the 804 is without a doubt the fastest of them. Super Anti and best anti are very close in terms of speed compared to each other, while Mirage is clearly the slowest of them all. AS Special is the strange one as it actually seems to come with gears. When used to block, it is dead slow, almost as slow as Mirage actually, but not quite. When used to hit, lift or even chop with, it feels a lot faster, so active play with it enhances the speed.

Spin, generating it:

Neoanti: 10
Best anti: 7
804: 5
Anti power:3
Super Anti: 2
AS Special: 2
Mirage: 2

Neoanti wins this award, hands down. Best anti is also pretty good at this, while the rest of them clearly isn't intended to create spin with.

affected by incoming spin:

804: 10
Neoanti: 4
Best anti: 3
Mirage: 2
Anti power: 2
Super Anti: 1
AS Special: 1

804 is affected like a sheet of old inverted and if you intend to go anti to aid your ability to handle spin, then forget about it! Minor differences between the others, but Super anti and AS Special are really the rubbers that seems to be totally unaffected by incoming spin. With this said, you still need to be aware of what spin you are working with, cause different spin requires different strokes.

Reversal:

Super anti: 8
AS Special: 8
Anti power: 7
Neoanti: 4
Best anti: 3
Mirage: 2
804: 1

Super anti or AS Special are clearly the ones to pick if you are looking for replacements to the frictionless long pips. Anti power also has pretty good reversal, but it's harder to get good use of it since it's faster. The rest of them really needs good help from your strokes to create any kind of reversal, unaided blocks will almost always give a dead ball back.

Aided reversal:

Neoanti: 10
Best Anti: 9
Anti power: 4
Super Anti: 3
AS Special: 2
Mirage: 2
804: 1

Neoanti and best anti are both very good at this and I believe they both play like a grippy kind of Lp. As for the rest of them, you can still chop down hard with them, but then the action is more used to deceive your opponent then to actually help the reversal. Remember, most of the time, it doesn't come down to the amount of spin/reversal you have, it is how well you manage to trick your opponent.

Deception:

Best anti: 10
Anti power: 8
Neoanti: 7
AS Special: 6
Super anti: 6
Mirage: 3
804: 1

Best anti and Anti power has one thing in common that the rest of them lack, the shots made with those rubbers look like they have been made with regular inverted, trajectory of the ball and stuff like that, this makes them very deceptive as your opponent really needs to watch your bat. Neoanti, AS Special and Super anti also has very good deception possibilities, but for different reasons. With Neoanti, it is because you can create such variation on the spin, so it will be hard for your opponent to tell how much spin their is on it and sometimes even what kind of spin it has. With the Super Anti and AS Special, the deception is more about reversal actually, since the unaided reversal does most of the trick, a heavy chop stroke might fool your opponent to think there is a lot more spin then there is, while a block might trick them to think that there is less spin then there is. Mirage and 804 really doesn't do anything here, Mirage gives a dead ball back, regardless of spin on the ball and your own stroke, while the 804 gives... Well, what do you get from an old sheet of inverted? In best case, the 804 will give a dead ball back, otherwise, it reacts like inverted but to a lesser degree.

So what styles are they suited for?

Neoanti and Best anti probably works best for chopper who prefers to back away from the table. If you intend to stick close to the table to play with these, twiddling is crucial!

Anti power is probably suitable for a hitter/blocker, as it has good speed and blocking abilities. Feels to fast to chop with good control, so stick to the table and hit incoming backspin as every day was the last! Twiddling isn't needed, all though it's always helpful for playing a deception type of game. If you don't twiddle, your opponent will soon enough learn on what side you have the anti and react to it.

Super Anti works as a frictionless replacement, close to the table, straight of the bounce, blocking is the thing here. Off course, it can be used for a surprising hit every now and then, but since the trajectory of the ball gives it away, good players will learn how to deal with this pretty quick and since it lacks the speed, don't expect to hit any outright winners with it. Twiddling will help a lot, especially if you always pick the ball off the bounce as this will feed your opponent very different types of spin and give him very little time to react upon it.

AS Special, as you might have noticed, feels very similar to Super Anti and should work for pretty much the same style. The advantage you get with AS Special is that once you decide to hit, you will be able to make faster shots then you will with the Super Anti. Downside is, the AS feels a lot less forgiving and the angles really have to be worked out on this to be effective. Then again, it seems to create the most wobbling of all the Antis I have tried, so perhaps it is worth the hassle with angles?

Mirage and 804, I really can't see which style this two would be beneficial to. The 804 might be able to play a close to the table hitting game, but let's face it, there are better rubbers for this. Mirage, probably intended to be used as Super anti, but it really hasn't got what it takes. To little reversal to be useful and unless you have to much money on your hands and feel like all you ever want to do with you Anti is to drop it short, with no spin, stay clear of this rubber.

As for me, I'm a little confused as too what I should use, Bty Super Anti or Nittaku Best Anti? Both have very good strengths, are easy to play with but demands different technique and playing styles to perform at their best. Neoanti is off course also a great rubber, but since I have tried the Super Anti and Best anti, Neoanti feels a little to fast Which is strange, since I still liked the Anti power that is clearly faster...

Now the AS Special have joined the battle for a place on my primary set up, seeing how it created more wobbling then the others, it was slow on blocks but still had the speed to put the ball away with and good reversal. I really must admit, despite those positive sides, I'm not sure it is worth the hefty price, since Super Anti comes so close in behaviour.

Any questions you might have, feel free to post them either in a separate tread or the original post and I will do my best to answer them with my experience from these rubbers.

I've created this tread and intends to continue to add antis as I try them, keeping it locked and stickied to keep it organised in one place.
NOTE: This thread is kept locked to keep things organised. Everything above has been copied from other thread (http://forums.oneofakindtrading.com.au/ ... 67&start=0) in this section, so if you wish to comment, please do so there.

Great post! Stickied :clap:




Very useful information... Could you please let me know where do the below 2 stand in all the above ratings(speed,spin,grip,unaided reversal,aidedreversal,deception)?
1) Dr Neubar Anti special
2) Dr Neubar ABS


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PostPosted: 14 May 2012, 03:25 
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Hello Hello9959

you find a comprehensive comparison of the slicker antis under viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11598. The classical and intermediate antis are difficult to compare to the slick ones; I think these are two different classes.

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PostPosted: 20 May 2012, 21:37 
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Slick wrote:
Hello Hello9959

you find a comprehensive comparison of the slicker antis under viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11598. The classical and intermediate antis are difficult to compare to the slick ones; I think these are two different classes.



Thanks Slick... I had gone through that link already..i was confused between "dr neuberer anti special" and "Der Material Spezialist Nightmare". After long long research in gathering information and reading all the informaition related to latest anti rubbers. I am decided to order "Der Material Spezialist Nightmare" as Der Material Spezialist Nightmare gives more unaided spin reversal(spin reversal on a passive block/just holding a open blade) compared any anti spin rubber as per the information provided in the posts. I hope my decision works for me.

Can anyone suggest which blade will suit me the best?
I play close to the table block(both bh & Fh),counter(both bh & Fh),topspin(forehand heavy top spin),push(both bh & Fh).

Bh rubber: Der Material Spezialist Nightmare(1.2mm sponge)
Fh rubber: DHS Hurricane 2 (2.2 sponge)
I need maximum reversal for anti backhand and hence my backhand needs slow drop shots very important to be effective and also i need very good speed for my forehand to kill the shots and play some good top spin. I understand getting a blade very slow speed on backhand and very high speed at forehand is difficult but i need these both badly as i play for high rank in my state and need both to beat high rank players...based on the ratings i guess Aurora is good for backhand for speed is not enough for forehand i guess(havent tried myself). I currently use Stiga allround evolution. I need more speed on my forehand and control. Aurora gives less forehand speed than my current blade(which is considered to be medium fast or slow).

Which blade is more suitable for me? Need some good advises please.

Cheers,


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PostPosted: 20 May 2012, 21:39 
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hello9959 wrote:
Slick wrote:
Hello Hello9959

you find a comprehensive comparison of the slicker antis under viewtopic.php?f=17&t=11598. The classical and intermediate antis are difficult to compare to the slick ones; I think these are two different classes.



Thanks Slick... I had gone through that link already..i was confused between "dr neuberer anti special" and "Der Material Spezialist Nightmare". After long long research in gathering information and reading all the informaition related to latest anti rubbers. I am decided to order "Der Material Spezialist Nightmare" as Der Material Spezialist Nightmare gives more unaided spin reversal(spin reversal on a passive block/just holding a open blade) compared any anti spin rubber as per the information provided in the posts. I hope my decision works for me.

Can anyone suggest which blade will suit me the best?
I play close to the table block(both bh & Fh),counter(both bh & Fh),topspin(forehand heavy top spin),push(both bh & Fh).

Bh rubber: Der Material Spezialist Nightmare(1.2mm sponge)
Fh rubber: DHS Hurricane 2 (2.2 sponge)
I need maximum reversal for anti backhand and hence my backhand needs slow drop shots very important to be effective and also i need very good speed for my forehand to kill the shots and play some good top spin. I understand getting a blade very slow speed on backhand and very high speed at forehand is difficult but i need these both badly as i play for high rank in my state and need both to beat high rank players...based on the ratings i guess Aurora is good for backhand for speed is not enough for forehand i guess(havent tried myself). I currently use Stiga allround evolution. I need more speed on my forehand and control. Aurora gives less forehand speed than my current blade(which is considered to be medium fast or slow).

Which blade is more suitable for me? Need some good advises please.

Cheers,



I request all the tt/anti masters to suggest me please on the above please....


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PostPosted: 21 May 2012, 00:26 
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Your current blade should be fine. It has excellent control and you can hit very powerfully with it. If you are struggling to get power with it on your Fh then work on your timing and technique. Some of the most powerful hitters I have seen use a stiga allround.


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PostPosted: 21 May 2012, 01:38 
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carbonman wrote:
Your current blade should be fine. It has excellent control and you can hit very powerfully with it. If you are struggling to get power with it on your Fh then work on your timing and technique. Some of the most powerful hitters I have seen use a stiga allround.


Thanks Carbonman... What about my backhand, anti spin ""Der Material Spezialist Nightmare" will work good with stiga allround evolution? .. i heard that anti spin gives better reversal with stiffer blades but allround is less stiff.. what do you say?


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PostPosted: 21 May 2012, 08:51 
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Maybe a stiffer blade is preferable with anti - others can advise you on this better than I can. At the end of the day however it depends on your game - there are no steadfast rules on these things.

if you are after reversal then I would use LP not anti. anti has relatively little reversal and is very easy to play against. it can produce some ok greasy blocks but thats about it.


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