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 Post subject: stiga energy absorber
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2011, 01:42 
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Today I finally got the Stiga Energy Absorber antispin rubber I ordered weeks ago - only in 2.0 instead of 1.6 mm (black - it is the only colour it is produced in). I glued it on one of my Stiga oversize allround blades, which made it quite heavy, and practised against the robot. Awkward at first (it should be as I'm used to pips), I got the feeling this is a rubber that might work well for a combination of close to the table defence and attack. It is rather fast (for an anti) when you hit, but slow when you block passively. It will produce some topspin on a looping stroke, some reversal on a block, but it seems best when you just punch - it produces a dead ball on that. So spin-variation is quite possible, as well as speed-variation. The rubber came with a sticky protection sheet! It is a bit sticky itself and as a result sensitive to side-spin, but not much to back or top. Used actively, it isn't very sensitive to spin at all. I will go on using it, trying to get a better idea of how it can be used. I just want to add for now that the cover is absolutely fantastic: it has a commercial text in Swedish, German, English, and French, and there is this sentence in English that you simply have to appreciate: "The rubber is ideally suited for defensive players and can farce (sic) the opponent into errors." I love that. Farcing my opponents. It must be heaven.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2011, 03:41 
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Hi Kees,

I'm glad you've been posting about antis lately. I can never seem to stay away from them. Just recently I retested a bunch of black antis against the robot. I found Stiga Energy Absorber 1.6 to be the fastest of the bunch. Others tested were: Butterfly Super Anti, Yasaka Anti Power, Nittaku Best Anti, Juic Neo Anti and Joola Toni Hold Antitop.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2011, 04:09 
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In 1.6 fast too? Stiga recommends it for classic defence in 1.6. Maybe on a very slow blade, then... It seems like a blocker/hitter's anti to me, perhaps not too different from chinese anti's. I'm going to try it on a regular-sized Stiga Allround blade tomorrow. I'm not sure how good it will be, though. I alternated today with a short pips rubber (Globe 889-2 2.0 mm), which is less sensitive to sidespin and attacks better, but can't block short against fast balls of course. Maybe this kind of anti is best suited to a disruptive style - changing spin and speed so as to mess up the opponent? Still investigating... Have you ever tried Chinese anti's?

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2011, 04:25 
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I think there may be another thread where someone tried Stiga EA. I posted on there that despite using it for a full season I couldn't keep control of it and this was on a Stiga Alround blade as well.
It was just too fast and I was playing away from the table with it. It might as well have been an ordinary reverse rubber which had lost its grip.
I moved on to the BTY Super Anti for the next two seasons and felt totally comfortable with it.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2011, 04:43 
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Moggy wrote:
Quote:
I was playing away from the table with it.

Just to be sure: chopping?

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2011, 05:04 
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Kees wrote:
Moggy wrote:
Quote:
I was playing away from the table with it.

Just to be sure: chopping?


Yes, and chop blocking. It was very reactive to the amount of force you put into the shot, which also made incoming fast balls difficult to control.
Stiga SA just soaked up the speed and slowed the ball down despite sometimes hitting through it hard.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2011, 05:16 
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Regarding Chinese antis, I have tried the 804 (both out of the package and slicked up) and Giant Dragon Guard Special in red and Guard .4mm in black.

I've been looking for something to counter opponents who don't put much spin on the ball, who for me can frankly be a headache to play against using low friction LPs or frictionless antis. I sort of liked what the guy in this video is doing, even though he got killed in the game. Overall he has a pretty good balance in his league results. I think he has anti on both wings. :-o :-o :-o


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2011, 00:12 
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MNNB, 13/11 is my birthday (1958), so a match on this date has to have special meaning, which makes it too bad the old guy is done in... :sweat: . ;) . I'm not sure the Stiga will help you, but it might, on the forehand, if you'd want to use it for attack.
Today I tried it on a Stiga Allround blade (Globe 999 National, 2.2, red on the forehand). Chopping it produced a lot of backspin, even on moderate incoming spin; it can also produce some backspin off incoming backspin, probably because of its 2.0 mm sponge. It is like chopping with inverted (not pips; big difference), only far more easy to keep the ball low.
Blocking is complicated. For one thing, the rubber doesn't soak up speed as the cover implies; returning fast topspin, you have to be able to soft-block yourself or the ball will go over the net with moderate speed (and be killed). Keeping the ball low is difficult: you have to close your bat for it, but if you do that a bit too much the ball wil go into the net. Punch-blocking, however, is easy - any active stroke with this anti is - and placement is very precise, but you have to punch very hard if you want speed off slow to moderately fast incoming balls (serve, for instance).
Hitting is just perfect. You can hit with topspin against topspin (go over the ball a bit snapping your wrist), or hit a dead ball (just hit it right on, straight to where you want it), or add some sidespin, and so on. But the speed isn't really dangerous (compared to inverted or short pips, or medium pips either).
Attacking backspin is best done by punching straight forward, but a side-sweep works too, with the bat slightly open. Add some wrist and you'll produce heavy topspin.

So, all in all, it made me wonder what kind of player or style Stiga had in mind when they designed this anti.
It is too slow for effective continuous attack (unless perhaps if used on a fast carbon blade), and too fast for a passive blocking and countering game close to the table.
It would be dangerous when used for away from the table chopping combined with quick attack, but in that case I guess a thinner sponge (1.6 is also available) would be better.
It also might be dangerous when used by an allrounder who is always changing spin with his backhand to set up attacks for his forehand.
And perhaps it would be a good forehand anti in a double-anti style, MNNB...

Anyhow, so far I have only used it against a robot. Tomorrow I will try it in practice-matches. I am not convinced, but it might be that its seeming mediocrity as to speed and spin turns out to be a dangerous subtlety in matches, making it pretty hard to predict and play against at mid-level. Assuming they know what they're doing at Stiga's, my guess would be they had subtlety in mind when designing it, intending it for the cunning allrounder.

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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2011, 02:58 
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The other two-winged anti player I've seen is this guy, who uses Butterfly Super Anti on both sides of a Dr. N Firewall +. More of a hitter.


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2011, 05:07 
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This guy certainly knows what he is doing. But I wonder what would happen if the boy at the other side would hit back and kill every serve? He seems to think there's real backspin on the ball. I guess the speed of the serve leaves him no time to think better of his reflexes, which is good psychological tactics on the part of the anti-player, who does a pretty clean job of hitting against chops and pushes and who also has this seemingly natural use of the underarm and wrist on press-pushes which looks completely wrong to "normal" players and adds to their confusion. That might be one of the keys to this close-to-the-table style, and more important, perhaps, than the choice of the brand of anti: keep up the psychological pressure by serving and returning fast. Not so easy!

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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2011, 05:51 
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Could be something to the psychological element. The anti-player is a psychiatrist. There are a few other videos of him playing on YouTube. No one seems to attack his serves.

I really enjoy watching these double-anti guys who use anti for every shot. I tried it once just after FLP was banned and was unbelievably shot down, but I didn't know what I was doing and just did passive blocks. These three guys all have very different styles, but all have very active strokes whether chopping (Carlesso), pushing (Revermann) or hitting (Geete). I guess anything is possible with anti, at least to an intermediate level, and even beyond for women and seniors, i.e. Amelie and Dr. Neubauer.

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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2011, 07:23 
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From 3:26 the guy in this video is hitting with Energy Absorber (the chopper is using Butterfly Super Anti).


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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2011, 15:39 
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Instructive! How do you find these wonderfull vids you keep posting? They always add in one way or another to understanding yet another aspect of the game. Great, MNNB. :clap:
The anti-player appears to use the elongated variant of the scoop/push/punch one would do over the table against backspin, at least on his backhand. I have seen Liang Geliang do the same stroke against low bouncing fast balls, but quicker and shorter so it is hard to see for the opponent (since the blade is open) wether he is quickly "hitting" or chopping.
I am not sure this player does the same on his forehand all the time; sometimes, against high balls, he seems to sort of smash and close his bat a bit.
Anyway, this is a good basic example of how to attack long backspin with anti. I don't know why this player is taking the balls late. Also his returns don't drop short behind the net and don't rush away either, instead they bounce fairly high and would be killed in a real game, but that may be due to the fact that these players both use anti, so there is little spin around in the first place. And maybe he is just demonstrating the stroke slowly and making everything very obvious. I think in a game you would have to make this stroke faster (snappier), more forward instead of upward, and take the ball earlier (on the rise) in order to keep it low over the net and get real spin and speed in your return.
Do you know what it says (in longhand Russian or something) at 3'? He hits harder and more efficient after that, perhaps now showing more of the real deal...

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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2011, 17:55 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Just recently I retested a bunch of black antis against the robot. I found Stiga Energy Absorber 1.6 to be the fastest of the bunch. Others tested were: Butterfly Super Anti, Yasaka Anti Power, Nittaku Best Anti, Juic Neo Anti and Joola Toni Hold Antitop.

Which is the slowest? Just ordered Best Anti and am anxious to try :) . I was looking for an anti to kill high speed.

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PostPosted: 16 Jun 2011, 18:33 
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Kees wrote:
Instructive! How do you find these wonderfull vids you keep posting? They always add in one way or another to understanding yet another aspect of the game. Great, MNNB.

I don't know. Seems like they almost find me. :lol:

Here's another one. This guy is the opposite of the guy above who takes everything on his backhand. He tries to take everything with the anti on his forehand. (I hate it when people add music :n: )


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