OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Ok, probably most people who open this already know I'm in the process of seriously working at converting from several years of ox lp blocking to Nightmare anti.

What I'm annoyed most by at the moment is strong shots wide to my backhand that make me react fast and twist and extend the racket well out to the backhand side of my body. It's a tricky situation because it's mostly reflex and I have very little conscious idea of how I'm playing it. I'm usually missing the shot EXTREMELY low and short, hitting my side of the table well short of the net. It seems like I must be closing the face which definitely doesn't work with the Nightmare but if you had asked me a week ago how I play that shot I would have confidently said that I just stick it out there with a slightly open face.

This has been an impact shot for me when playing well with pips. The opponent expects to win the point but instead very often has to deal with an angled shot with some nasty reversal so it's quite frustrating to be rarely getting that impact any more.

It's tricky to practice because if I know its coming and have time to think then its a different situation. I probably would play a short range chop rather than the reflex block.

Any thoughts? Wild guesses and crazy theories are fine 'cause I'm kinda lost. Thanks.

On the plus side I hit with a guy with a slow spinny loop opener today and it was fun watching him push the heavy reversal into the net most of the time. I find this stuff reverses loops considerably better than pips but reversal against rolls is less than pips with an active hack block.

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coming back after 2 years off
don't freaking know what I'm using from day to day!

for my case, i will hit the ball back or do a quasi-loop, you might be surprised that opponents will frequently over hit the return shot or over compensate by blocking it into the net. i think for anti either slick anti or the traditional anti, we need to be pro-active in our shots.

Thank you for taking the time to answer but I don't think you understood the situation I tried to describe. At its most extreme I'm twisting my torso into a pretzel(fat pretzel), nearly turning my back to the table and fully extending my arm just to make contact with the ball. 'Hitting' or 'pseudo-looping' would be impossible. I suppose I could move the bat slightly up and through but against a ball with considerable speed and topspin I don't see what would be gained.

Being pro-active may be a good policy in general but I'm specifically talking about a very defensive situation. I'm close to the table and the opponent hits medium to hard at a good angle wide to my backhand. Usually this would follow me hitting a mediocre block a bit high and/or short crosscourt.

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coming back after 2 years off
don't freaking know what I'm using from day to day!

an idea - let your left knee bend more, if you don't already? This would give you greater stretch, and open the racket more....

If you are turning your back to the table to extend your backhand reach, the problem is footwork or anticipation of the ball placement. Maybe you cross your right leg in front of your left leg?

I think opening the racket is the duh! answer to what is probably a dumb thread. Can you expound upon the relationship between the left knee and the open racket?

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coming back after 2 years off
don't freaking know what I'm using from day to day!

Possibly true but not addressing why I made the shot a lot with lp and nearly never with the slick anti.

As carbonman pointed out in my Nightmare vids thread in this anti forum I have real issues with the very basics of athletic stance and balanced movement. I think my anticipation is quite good.

Feet are not moving at all in this scenario. My first reaction is to say there isn't time but i guess that if I have time to twist I have time to at least stab the left foot out further.

I am talking about an emergency situation caused by me hitting a weak shot and the opponent following with a near winner. Are you saying that there is NO emergency which I should respond to by twisting and reaching? That might be a MAJOR thing to work on.

_________________
coming back after 2 years off
don't freaking know what I'm using from day to day!

bcbcbc,
After reading this;

"Thank you for taking the time to answer but I don't think you understood the situation I tried to describe. At its most extreme I'm twisting my torso into a pretzel(fat pretzel), nearly turning my back to the table and fully extending my arm just to make contact with the ball."

I must ask, what is the question?

To do the above senario, you must be crossing your right leg over your left, or not side stepping, just reaching with the left foot planted.

Reading your first post, you seem to be asking why you have trouble with anti after using pips for a long time. I do not see the type of rubber as the problem. I see it as footwork.

The question is why am I missing this particular reflex shot with anti that I made with pips. Because my technique is bad with both doesn't seem to be a reasonable answer. If it is it would be in a very subtle way. Since I'm missing the shot low the correct answer is probably the obvious "Open the face more, stupid".

Reaching with the left foot planted is exactly what I am doing with anti when i miss AND did with the pips when I made the shot. Actually in this scenario I've been giving myself a pat on the back for getting a very difficult shot back SOME way. If I get an easy roll on the same angle as I'm talking about getting a sharp drive I definitely don't twist and reach although I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that what I do is still not good. Learning that I need to work on fundamentals of moving to the backhand may be a side benefit of a dumb thread.

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coming back after 2 years off
don't freaking know what I'm using from day to day!

my assumption was, as you were late to the ball, you wouldn't have time to get into position correctly. In which case, if you bend to the left by bending your left leg (still standing square to the table), with your arm in the same position, the bat face opens - try it!

If I correctly understandyou sometimes happen to succeed with your panic shot using the Nightmare. If so, I guess your original assumption is correct: it's a matter of blade angle. Since it is a panic, instinctive reaction, you cannot solve your problem with rationality, because in such situation you haven't got sufficient time to use your frontal brain.

I know quite well what you're talking about. I used classic anti for two decades and some month ago switched to slick ones. I had a similar panic shot, too, which did not at all work any more with the new antis. However, I can comfort you a little: It is a matter of time; after half year of practicing with slick antis I get about 50% of my former quote on this special shot, and counting. I assume one adjusts unconsciously.

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Equipment: Dr Neubauer Firewall+ - Butterfly Tenergy 05 - Spinlab Vortex 2.3 (red sponge)

YES! You feel my pain. Your 'panic' is a good rephrasing of my 'reflex' and 'emergency'

YIKES! Half a year for 50%.

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coming back after 2 years off
don't freaking know what I'm using from day to day!

ok, starting after 3:50 here are two receive points where my second shot is basically what I'm talking about. I'm back to the camera. I actually make both of these. I think because I chop the serves back I'm a little further back and my reflex shot is a little more of a chop which works more the same with either rubber. The anticipation looks bad on the first point but the strength of Mike's game is snapping the ball to the corners with unreadable unconventional 'strokes'. The reaching is so extreme that the follow through is actually backward!
The left foot definitely moves but it looks like its following the upper body more than driving it.

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coming back after 2 years off
don't freaking know what I'm using from day to day!

i do have a rough idea where you are coming from, being a closed to the table blocker myself and hate to give up the table. i always try to do an active shot, you may be surprised that can actually do something (like snaping ur wrist / pulling back yr hand / moving your forehand up or down eyc) rather than passively block back if you are out of position and hit an reflex shot, just need to get used to it, i think it is easier if you have an inverted/short pips/medium pips backhand previously...

My reason to accept that long time of acquaintance is that such panic situations are very rare except you force them in practicing. These one or two occasions in a match may be frustrating but do not count very much at the end. If you experience such cases more often, I guess you should consider working on those shortcomings that just bring you into these situations rather than on standing the situation itself.

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Equipment: Dr Neubauer Firewall+ - Butterfly Tenergy 05 - Spinlab Vortex 2.3 (red sponge)