OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Finally available: JOOLA Timeless – a world first table tennis rubber! Timeless is a new disturbance rubber based on anti loop technology, can be controlled without extended training and will impress with its excellent ball feedback!

The completely new structure of the rubber surface of Timeless was achieved by using a revolutionary production technique, which is completed by a ‘chemical burn’ of the rubber. In combination with a foamed rubber sponge the upper rubber provides a new, unique playing feeling! Spin reversal and speed variations are now controllable for everybody! The JOOLA Timeless adds a new dimension for specialist material players.

Successful coach Pavel Solja, responsible for the training of the probably most successful European specialist material player, Amelie Solja, described the JOOLA Timeless as a milestone in development of rubbers with spin reversal effect!

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My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

btw: this one carries quite an extreme price tag of more than a hundred US-$! It really must be a miracle (as a rubber or as a marketing gag)

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Equipment: Dr Neubauer Firewall+ - Butterfly Tenergy 05 - Spinlab Vortex 2.3 (red sponge)

BTY showed them the way. Marketing.

with these kinds of price issues there will probably be more and more people changing to chinese rubber

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I have a manufacturering, research background. I have worked for injection molding and extrusion companies. I can tell you, the cost for materials is a very small part of the final costs.
Lets compare one of my truck tires to a table tennis rubber.
The tire has over 20 lbs of rubber, steel and other materials. The mold used is absolutly huge and uses huge amounts of power to run and heat the rubber.
The table tennis rubber weighs in ounces. The mold is much smaller and uses a small amount of power compared to the tire mold. Any special materials used are in very small quantities.
Up to this point, there is no justification for the high price. The difference in my opinion is; there are more tires made than TT rubbers so overhead is greater for table tennis rubbers. Still not enough justification. Just like tire companies sponsor racers, table tennis companies sponsor players. Still not enough justification. I think the real reason for high prices is "Demand', partly from users but more from EJ's. As long as the demand is there, someone will take advantage of it.
I might be wrong but suspect material cost for ANY sheet of table tennis rubber is less than $10. The only other sport I can think of off hand with similar variety of equipment is fishing. There are thousands of different lures, reels, poles, etc all claiming to be the best. You can pay $10 for a flyrod. You can pay $600 for a similar Loomis flyrod. Both will catch fish. In fact, the cheaper rod may be the best choice for most people. Less prone to damage, stronger but heavier. Only the better fisherman will tell the difference. It is not the difference in material costs that make the difference in these rods, it is the handwork and finish. Some better materials, (rosewood handle, etc) but not $550 difference. People pay the $600 because they have the money, they want "the best", (expensive means best) ego, think it will make them a better fisherman. It might make them a little better, lay a fly down on the water with greater precision and less line splash but, $600 worth better? I guess so if you have a deep pocket.
I use anti on my Seemiller rig but "Timeless" is one I will not be using.
Ross, you are missing the boat!

Good shot, hook
However, you forgot about competition. Although many rubbers are very similar, they try to appear different. If they take such a price, they may believe they have a product really new to the market - or they think, people may believe it is something essentially new just because of the price tag. Who can tell? Furthermore, Joola may have to pay the developer of this particular rubber, rumors say its Toni Hold.

Lets wait for the first tests, if there will be any. What about you, notBob? You may be the most experienced Anti-tester in the forum.

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Equipment: Dr Neubauer Firewall+ - Butterfly Tenergy 05 - Spinlab Vortex 2.3 (red sponge)

Thats not really competition, it is "Marketing".
Looks like Joola just got a jump on BTY.

I'm giving it a close look. If it looks like it's really something special, I would give it a shot. It probably won't hit the USA for three-six months at Joola USA or Puddle Palace, so I would have to get it from Germany. $108 + $27 shipping from Contra.de is a serious investment for a test, and Contra doesn't have it yet.

It has been speculated that this is an improved version of Toni Hold New 40 Antitop with good spin reversal. If that is the case, it might be a great rubber. It sounds interesting for sure.

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My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

I wonder if Amelie Solja had any input into the development... if they sponsor a player like that to market and play with it, it would surely boost their sales...

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Her father seems to be hyping it.

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My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

From the pic posted, it says made in Austria. maybe Toni does have a hand in designing it.

i wonder if the reversal will be as good as Nightmare.

-yori

Curiously it seems to only come in 1.9 sponge, which may be heavier than I like.

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The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

NotBob, as far as I remember, you are reading German boards. Maybe they have already tested the rubber and at least report it is top or hype?

Yeah, Hookshot, marketing is a technique to become different from competition. So, we're both true, I guess.

Considering the physics of known antispin rubbers, slow speed and high spin reversal are mutually exclusive from a certain point on. This point is imho almost reached by the Nightmare. So, unless Joola really has invented something entirely new, spin reversal of the slower Timeless can barely beat that of the NM. However, maybe it is a new type of rubber indeed, with a pretty hardened slick surface, but this might make the rubber fast against fast balls and slow against slow ones. What could be unique to the Timeless is the wobbling effect, because the final treatment of its surface may have produced kind of a microtopography similar to outdated slick LP.

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Equipment: Dr Neubauer Firewall+ - Butterfly Tenergy 05 - Spinlab Vortex 2.3 (red sponge)

Promising
Wanted to see the close up tho. I personally love the topsheet of Donic Alligator Anti, dunno about this one.
Ooh and I also love the name.. Timeless fits just perfect

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Here a photo from noppen-test.de!

The micro-structure is easy to identify ...

Very interesting ...

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