OOAK Table Tennis Forum

THe only red sponge from 729 AFAIK is the MRS (Magic Red Sponge), which is generally softer and lighter than the HRS, but also a bit more lively. I've only seen it on the RITC2000 and the Cream. THere are usually significant variations in hardness between batches, so some feel nicer than others.

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I'm not particularly interested in anti-spin but your detailed reviews make for fantastic reading, Kees

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[Other gear I've used]
Blades: Butterfly Defence 3, Butterfly Defence Pro, Butterfly Innerforce ZLC, Butterfly Innershield, DHS Power G7, Stiga Offensive Classic Carbon
SPs: Friendship 802 (1.5), TSP Spectol (1.3, 1.8, 2.1), TSP Spectol Speed (1.3), TSP Super Spinpips Chop Sponge 2 (0.5, 1.3)
LPs: Butterfly Feint Long II (1), Butterfly Feint Long III (0.5, 1.3), Tibhar Grass D.TecS (OX), TSP Curl P1-R (0.5, 1, 1.3), TSP Curl P4 (1.3)

thanks

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Without opponent, no match.

If that's the one, it explains the speed on attacks; perhaps the inelasticity of the topsheet explains the ability to absorb speed as well... Now that you mention it, I think Ding Song used that sponge in 1.5 mm under his 802 short pips for chopping; that would mean putting it under an antispin topsheet would make sense, at least for chinese defenders.

I tested the rubber today against a live opponent. This time, to get the best conditions for comparison, I used it on a Tibhar Defense Plus blade (1.5 mm Friendship FX red on the forehand), to compare with Tibhar Ellen Def (1.5 mm Friendship Geospin tacky red on the forehand) also on a Tibhar Defense Plus blade.
The 804 is definitely a bit faster than the Ellen. On a scale of 1 to 10, if the Ellen would get 4, the 804 would get about 6, which is the speed of the Ellen in its Offensive version. For comparison, the FX would get 7.5, the Geospin Tacky 8 or maybe 8.5.
It also has a lower throw than the Ellen, very low on this blade. And it generates more spin on its own, but less unaided reversal, as before.

Chopping against fast incoming balls with moderate to low spin (my opponent plays penhold withs short pips), keeping the ball very low over the net is easy with both antis. Against fast spinny balls the Ellen tends to bring them back without problem, just a touch high, and a bit short, which offers the opponent opportunities for attack. The 804 chops them low and fast and with good spin, bringing the ball far on the table - in fact, you have to be cautious not to make too much speed, for the ball won't hold up when you chop downward. If you take the ball earlier, chopping horizontally, the 804 produces just enough backspin to make the ball hold up a little, but I didn't get balls that floated and then fell dead to the table, as you can with LP. This is not necessarily a drawback; SP won't make that kind of floaters either and still is the preferred chopping rubber for the backhand for chinese defenders (like Ding Song). But it does have tactical implications. Backhand defense is safe with 804, but in itself won't win you points, so it has to go with frequent forehand attack. The fact that the 804 will not make an amount of backspin that will force the opponent to push or drop can actually be an advantage, then; there is enough backspin on the ball to invite a loop, but that loop can't be too fast, so it is well suited to re-looping it. To me, that's good news, as I like a varied mix of defense and attack; what I do not like is long chopping rallies.
Receiving service is easy with both antis, but the 804 allows to be more aggressive in your returns. A flick with the Ellen has to be very nasty placed, or will be somewhat harmless, because the ball comes slow. A flick with the 804 is fast enough to put it in different places and trouble the opponent. The 804 also makes more backspin if you decide to chop a low/no-spin ball; it can hit it as well, with good speed and no spin.
Pushing, the 804 makes it easier to vary speed and spin. It is hard to read for the opponent what is coming towards him.
Killing balls that bounce too high is also easier; but the Ellen did it with less speed almost as effectively, because its lower speed allows to cut the sidelines when smashing.
One special feature of the 804 is driving at mid-distance producing no-spin balls with enough speed to catch the opponent off-guard if he is a little out of position. The Ellen isn't fast enough for that. The 804 will even drive balls that are a bit past their highest point.
It is a bit like defending with SP; even the shortness of the downward chop is more or less alike and equally effective.
All in all, I have to say I like this anti very much. I have become quite attached to the Ellen, but I may mothball it if the 804 continues to be effective for my game.

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Without opponent, no match.

Yes, my favorite too. Together with Armstrong attack anti.

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brokkie

804 is fast enough to hit someone silly

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brokkie

This is a video i posted in my blog when I was blogging...all the strokes and comments are right on about 804. In my club, the guy in blue uses 2.0 804 in black on the BH. He is the 2012 Div 2 champion and currently in Div 1. He didn't do as well last year, maybe due to first year blues but his brother who is a chopper also in Div 1 and former 1800 CAN says he was getting use to a new sheet...he uses 729 fx red on the fh...blade?? I'll ask him when we practice again next week. BTW he's better than I am...ANd when he's on he can slap you silly. For comparison the guy who beat him in red lost to another pips div 1 guy who I beat in my summer club...it's like a vicious cycle of match ups go figure...

Also, we had a fun time with Dave M. our club pro, on Monday night trying out Dave's equipment. Dave is like our club hero and took the time to show us lower guys a thing or two about pips vs anti etc. Leslie really likes my FW+ even though it had the highest bounce test even compared to Dave's titanium blade which had a real short bounce...holy moly!

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A big bag full of blades and long pimples, donuts and coffee!

I searched the internet a bit more. If this red sponge is not a specially designed sponge to be combined only with 804, but a regular Friendship sponge, it has to a MRS. 804 is also available on a creamy white HRS sponge, for instance at the german ttdd.de. According to the latter, the values for theses respective sponges are: HRS speed 8, spin 8, control 8.5, and MRS speed 8, spin 9, control 8, with the remark that MRS has a dampening effect at low impact. My experiences with this 804 on red sponge, especially as concerns dampening and spin effects, seem pretty much to fit with the qualities ascribed to MRS.

I wonder what would be the result if a 804 topsheet (it is available in OX) would be combined with a true dampening sponge... It might lose quite some speed, and perhaps some spin, so maybe it would get similar to Giant Dragon Guard anti?

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Without opponent, no match.

The 804 topsheet is available here: http://www.eacheng.net/index.php?act=detail&ID=3416
Toni Hold sells a nice dampening sponge (the thicker the more dampening) and also the Dr. N ABS sponge is quite nice. If you make the 804 topsheet a little slicker and combine it with a nice dampening sponge you have a real weapon for blocking at the table.

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Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"

Have you got the web address for the dampning sponge.
Zeropong sells the top sheet for $6 USD
tOD

The cheapest dampening sponge I know of is sold by ttdd.de (http://www.ttdd.de/sonstige2.html): YGA dampening sponge in 1.5 mm, euro 4.90 red. 4.20 blue. It is also available at Japsko.com, but at more than twice the price.

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Without opponent, no match.

I think it would be similar to Juic Neoanti

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brokkie

Dude, were you so desperate for the dampening sponge that you posted 3-times?
You can get it here for example: http://www.contra.de/product_info.php/info/p11441_Toni-Hold-D-mpfungsschwamm.html

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Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"

A firm grasp of the obvious, but in truth I have no idea how I happened to do that
tOD

A very cheap alternative to dampening sponge is moosgummi/foam sheets. http://www.stoklasa-eu.com/mix-color-cr ... ck-x130751

In a local shop here I can buy 10 a4 sheets for about 1 euro. Works quite well. Now that I think of it, I actually used one of those sheets with 804 a while ago and the result was surprisingly good.

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Galaxy T10 Bluefire M2 2.0 Palio Ck531a ox
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