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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2015, 04:25 
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I had a GD Special in mind, and it is true the Soft is slightly slower, so maybe the Stiga is about as fast. The Stiga is a bit faster than the Tibhar Ellen Def, or Joola Toni Hold, and about as fast as the Tibhar Ellen Off or the Juic NeoAnti, Yasaka Antipower, Nittaku Best Anti.
However, with normal anti's the speed is not so much an issue as it is with LP's, as the control is much higher with normal anti's (slick anti's is a bit different). As long as you use them on blades without balsa, they are very consistent and easy to use, much easier than any LP.
By the way, there is a thread about the speed of anti's: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17997. In my opinion the 1.6 mm Energy Absorber should be positioned between Neubauer AS and Nittaku BA, so it would be ranked as medium fast. The 2.0mm version is slightly faster, but I wouldn't say it is faster than the Yasaka or the Donic anti... and it is way slower than the Friendship 804.

If you are looking for a really slow anti, the Tibhar Ellen Def 1.5 mm would give the best possibilities for spinvariation, and red would offer better reversal as well as more disruption on attacks; but you would need at least ALL- in your blade to be able to attack with it effectively.
I have used the Energy Absorber in 1.6 mm on a Stiga Classic Allround (which is about All-) and it offers good defense away from the table, safe blocking close to the table, good counter-attack, and good aggressive pushing. The Ellen Def in 1.5 mm black and red on a similar, only slightly faster and stiffer blade did also very well. The differences are small.

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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2015, 04:43 
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Kees wrote:
I had a GD Special in mind, and it is true the Soft is slightly slower, so maybe the Stiga is about as fast. The Stiga is a bit faster than the Tibhar Ellen Def, or Joola Toni Hold, and about as fast as the Tibhar Ellen Off or the Juic NeoAnti, Yasaka Antipower, Nittaku Best Anti.
However, with normal anti's the speed is not so much an issue as it is with LP's, as the control is much higher with normal anti's (slick anti's is a bit different). As long as you use them on blades without balsa, they are very consistent and easy to use, much easier than any LP.
By the way, there is a thread about the speed of anti's: viewtopic.php?f=17&t=17997. In my opinion the 1.6 mm Energy Absorber should be positioned between Neubauer AS and Nittaku BA, so it would be ranked as medium fast. The 2.0mm version is slightly faster, but I wouldn't say it is faster than the Yasaka or the Donic anti... and it is way slower than the Friendship 804.

If you are looking for a really slow anti, the Tibhar Ellen Def 1.5 mm would give the best possibilities for spinvariation, and red would offer better reversal as well as more disruption on attacks; but you would need at least ALL- in your blade to be able to attack with it effectively.
I have used the Energy Absorber in 1.6 mm on a Stiga Classic Allround (which is about All-) and it offers good defense away from the table, safe blocking close to the table, good counter-attack, and good aggressive pushing. The Ellen Def in 1.5 mm black and red on a similar, only slightly faster and stiffer blade did also very well. The differences are small.


Thanks. I did try Yasaka Anti Power at the training course with Hans Thalin and that was nice (but a little too heavy and slightly fast). I must say that Stiga sound very promising, if I choose to give anti a try. It looks like it is only available in black, however. But that I guess I can handle, I have lots of red FH rubbers since I used black LPs.

I also have the Butterfly anti as an option (when I look at what my normal stores have in stock). What would be the benefits of that compared to Stiga's? I will most likely keep my Joo Se Hyuk blade.

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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2015, 06:00 
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Thanks for posting the video! :clap:

I think if you want to emphasize control and safe returns over maximum reversal or deception a classic anti might be a good choice for you. I real slow anti would also be Toni Hold but it is quite heavy.

Based on the techniques I saw in your video a frictionless anti might actually not be a bad choice because if I saw this correctly, you can twiddle and attack with inverted on backhand. You are limited with the frictionless anti in that you depend on the incoming spin to generate any spin, however you can always twiddle to your inverted when you get a no spin ball to push back with underspin or even attack. Obviously it would take some time to master new techniques but the frictionless anti in combination with the ability to twiddle can be a very dangerous weapon. If you are looking for a very slow anti the Buffalo might be an option for you. I can chop with it quite well on a fast blade (I am not a chopper!) and it is absolutely insensitive to the incoming spin. The stroke will be a bit different than with pips but that can be practiced.

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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2015, 15:52 
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Def-attack wrote:
I also have the Butterfly anti as an option (when I look at what my normal stores have in stock). What would be the benefits of that compared to Stiga's? I will most likely keep my Joo Se Hyuk blade.

I have only very limited experience with the Butterfly anti. A friend of mine has it in max (that would be 1.9mm, actually?) on a Yasaka allround plus blade and I tried it once, but that is all. It seemed to me to be very easy in use and rather light in weight. Reversal with this thick sponge was not impressive, but control very high, speed medium or a bit less. It worked for attack (hitting against all kinds of spin) as well as defense (chops). Not very sensitive to incoming spin, even though the sponge is rather soft. Juic NeoAnti is not so different, in my opinion, but a bit faster or more dynamic. The Butterfly does not feel like the Tibhar Ellen, which is slower and has a thicker topsheet (I think Ellen is somewhat less spin-sensitive); nor like the Energy Absorber, which in my opinion is a bit more dangerous in attacks due to reversal and speed. Even so, most of these "classic" antispin rubbers (Stiga, Tibhar, Nittaku, Butterfly, Juic; Joola anti's are different, Donic too) will do more or less the same once you have got to know them well. So if you'd want to try this type of anti, I guess it would make sense to go for the cheapest or the one easiest available.

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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2015, 16:25 
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Matt Pimple wrote:
Thanks for posting the video! :clap:

I think if you want to emphasize control and safe returns over maximum reversal or deception a classic anti might be a good choice for you. I real slow anti would also be Toni Hold but it is quite heavy.

Based on the techniques I saw in your video a frictionless anti might actually not be a bad choice because if I saw this correctly, you can twiddle and attack with inverted on backhand. You are limited with the frictionless anti in that you depend on the incoming spin to generate any spin, however you can always twiddle to your inverted when you get a no spin ball to push back with underspin or even attack. Obviously it would take some time to master new techniques but the frictionless anti in combination with the ability to twiddle can be a very dangerous weapon. If you are looking for a very slow anti the Buffalo might be an option for you. I can chop with it quite well on a fast blade (I am not a chopper!) and it is absolutely insensitive to the incoming spin. The stroke will be a bit different than with pips but that can be practiced.


I am a little curious of those slick antis. I never liked LP without sponge but that has more to do with the feeling. But also, I seem to feel locked inside a cage when I have no possibility to attack with BH (it is possible with lp ox but way too inconsistent). If I get a pop up I want to kill it. I can twiddle but I still have more learning to do before that works nice and smoothly for attacking. I guess slick antis are also difficult to attack with unless you attack back spin.

Another thing making me hesitate on slick antis is that I chop away from the table and that I guess a slick anti will be a little like a lp ox, and to most players it is far more easy to attack agasint chops from such a setup than from a sponged LP, since there is only limited possiblities to manipulate the spin with lp ox (and slick antis?).

But I am curious...

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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2015, 17:15 
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Kees wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
I also have the Butterfly anti as an option (when I look at what my normal stores have in stock). What would be the benefits of that compared to Stiga's? I will most likely keep my Joo Se Hyuk blade.

I have only very limited experience with the Butterfly anti. A friend of mine has it in max (that would be 1.9mm, actually?) on a Yasaka allround plus blade and I tried it once, but that is all. It seemed to me to be very easy in use and rather light in weight. Reversal with this thick sponge was not impressive, but control very high, speed medium or a bit less. It worked for attack (hitting against all kinds of spin) as well as defense (chops). Not very sensitive to incoming spin, even though the sponge is rather soft. Juic NeoAnti is not so different, in my opinion, but a bit faster or more dynamic. The Butterfly does not feel like the Tibhar Ellen, which is slower and has a thicker topsheet (I think Ellen is somewhat less spin-sensitive); nor like the Energy Absorber, which in my opinion is a bit more dangerous in attacks due to reversal and speed. Even so, most of these "classic" antispin rubbers (Stiga, Tibhar, Nittaku, Butterfly, Juic; Joola anti's are different, Donic too) will do more or less the same once you have got to know them well. So if you'd want to try this type of anti, I guess it would make sense to go for the cheapest or the one easiest available.


I have played against Butterfly Anti and that didn't bother me very much, except for that it seems very safe and no matter what you do the ball comes back :-) It is the lack of speed, or that when a stroke is made it looks like a normal inverted stroke but the ball's speed is something else... That caused me problem. I misjudged the distance and so on when attacking. But spinreversal did not trick me many times. I guess BTY anti can be something to try, or Stiga or NeoAnti. Too bad Stigas is not available in red...

I read Speedplays old thread on antis and he mentioned that Neo can generate lots of spin if you engage the sponge. It is not grippy on low impact but much more on high impact. That can be nice but also difficult to handle. But it makes it more easy to attack with... I guess this is valid for lots of antis? For the moment I am thinking of trying Neo, and if I really like that I might give Stiga a go, but that is more complicated since it only comes in black.

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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2015, 19:43 
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Def-attack wrote:
I have played against Butterfly Anti and that didn't bother me very much, except for that it seems very safe and no matter what you do the ball comes back :-) It is the lack of speed, or that when a stroke is made it looks like a normal inverted stroke but the ball's speed is something else... That caused me problem. I misjudged the distance and so on when attacking. But spinreversal did not trick me many times. I guess BTY anti can be something to try, or Stiga or NeoAnti. Too bad Stigas is not available in red...

I read Speedplays old thread on antis and he mentioned that Neo can generate lots of spin if you engage the sponge. It is not grippy on low impact but much more on high impact. That can be nice but also difficult to handle. But it makes it more easy to attack with... I guess this is valid for lots of antis? For the moment I am thinking of trying Neo, and if I really like that I might give Stiga a go, but that is more complicated since it only comes in black.


Whether an anti bothers you or not depends more on the quality of the player who uses it than on the rubber itself, at least that is my experience. It is a fact that the ease of use of the Butterfly kind of appeals to players with limitations. But that doesn't mean it is harmless also in better hands.

Juic NeoAnti is a bit of mixed bag. Its topsheet is thin and rather slick, its sponge is soft. The sponge will grip the ball, the topsheet not so much. If you want to generate your own spin, the 2.0 mm sponge is best, but that thickness will make this rubber rather sensitive to incoming spin. You don't have this problem with either the Ellen or the Energy Absorber; but they will generate spin as well when you use enough wrist.

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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2015, 20:41 
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Kees wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
I have played against Butterfly Anti and that didn't bother me very much, except for that it seems very safe and no matter what you do the ball comes back :-) It is the lack of speed, or that when a stroke is made it looks like a normal inverted stroke but the ball's speed is something else... That caused me problem. I misjudged the distance and so on when attacking. But spinreversal did not trick me many times. I guess BTY anti can be something to try, or Stiga or NeoAnti. Too bad Stigas is not available in red...

I read Speedplays old thread on antis and he mentioned that Neo can generate lots of spin if you engage the sponge. It is not grippy on low impact but much more on high impact. That can be nice but also difficult to handle. But it makes it more easy to attack with... I guess this is valid for lots of antis? For the moment I am thinking of trying Neo, and if I really like that I might give Stiga a go, but that is more complicated since it only comes in black.


Whether an anti bothers you or not depends more on the quality of the player who uses it than on the rubber itself, at least that is my experience. It is a fact that the ease of use of the Butterfly kind of appeals to players with limitations. But that doesn't mean it is harmless also in better hands.

Juic NeoAnti is a bit of mixed bag. Its topsheet is thin and rather slick, its sponge is soft. The sponge will grip the ball, the topsheet not so much. If you want to generate your own spin, the 2.0 mm sponge is best, but that thickness will make this rubber rather sensitive to incoming spin. You don't have this problem with either the Ellen or the Energy Absorber; but they will generate spin as well when you use enough wrist.

I prdered a red in 2.0 to try :)
If it feels like something to use more lika a main setup I will try Stiga.

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PostPosted: 29 Sep 2015, 22:49 
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Def-attack wrote:
Matt Pimple wrote:
Thanks for posting the video! :clap:

I think if you want to emphasize control and safe returns over maximum reversal or deception a classic anti might be a good choice for you. I real slow anti would also be Toni Hold but it is quite heavy.

Based on the techniques I saw in your video a frictionless anti might actually not be a bad choice because if I saw this correctly, you can twiddle and attack with inverted on backhand. You are limited with the frictionless anti in that you depend on the incoming spin to generate any spin, however you can always twiddle to your inverted when you get a no spin ball to push back with underspin or even attack. Obviously it would take some time to master new techniques but the frictionless anti in combination with the ability to twiddle can be a very dangerous weapon. If you are looking for a very slow anti the Buffalo might be an option for you. I can chop with it quite well on a fast blade (I am not a chopper!) and it is absolutely insensitive to the incoming spin. The stroke will be a bit different than with pips but that can be practiced.


I am a little curious of those slick antis. I never liked LP without sponge but that has more to do with the feeling. But also, I seem to feel locked inside a cage when I have no possibility to attack with BH (it is possible with lp ox but way too inconsistent). If I get a pop up I want to kill it. I can twiddle but I still have more learning to do before that works nice and smoothly for attacking. I guess slick antis are also difficult to attack with unless you attack back spin.

Another thing making me hesitate on slick antis is that I chop away from the table and that I guess a slick anti will be a little like a lp ox, and to most players it is far more easy to attack agasint chops from such a setup than from a sponged LP, since there is only limited possiblities to manipulate the spin with lp ox (and slick antis?).

But I am curious...


I thought ALL antis were "slick" antis by definition???


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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2015, 00:35 
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vanjr wrote:
Def-attack wrote:
Matt Pimple wrote:
Thanks for posting the video! :clap:

I think if you want to emphasize control and safe returns over maximum reversal or deception a classic anti might be a good choice for you. I real slow anti would also be Toni Hold but it is quite heavy.

Based on the techniques I saw in your video a frictionless anti might actually not be a bad choice because if I saw this correctly, you can twiddle and attack with inverted on backhand. You are limited with the frictionless anti in that you depend on the incoming spin to generate any spin, however you can always twiddle to your inverted when you get a no spin ball to push back with underspin or even attack. Obviously it would take some time to master new techniques but the frictionless anti in combination with the ability to twiddle can be a very dangerous weapon. If you are looking for a very slow anti the Buffalo might be an option for you. I can chop with it quite well on a fast blade (I am not a chopper!) and it is absolutely insensitive to the incoming spin. The stroke will be a bit different than with pips but that can be practiced.


I am a little curious of those slick antis. I never liked LP without sponge but that has more to do with the feeling. But also, I seem to feel locked inside a cage when I have no possibility to attack with BH (it is possible with lp ox but way too inconsistent). If I get a pop up I want to kill it. I can twiddle but I still have more learning to do before that works nice and smoothly for attacking. I guess slick antis are also difficult to attack with unless you attack back spin.

Another thing making me hesitate on slick antis is that I chop away from the table and that I guess a slick anti will be a little like a lp ox, and to most players it is far more easy to attack agasint chops from such a setup than from a sponged LP, since there is only limited possiblities to manipulate the spin with lp ox (and slick antis?).

But I am curious...


I thought ALL antis were "slick" antis by definition???

Guess it is like with lp... some are grippy, some are not... some antis are not grippy and some call those slick antis.

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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2015, 01:11 
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vanjr wrote:
I thought ALL antis were "slick" antis by definition???

No, there is actually a lot of difference between "classic" and "slick" antis; I think even more than between frictionless long and grippy long pips as the stroke techniques are quite difference. A classic anti (like BTY Super Anti) actually has a little bit of grip, though a lot less than regular inverted, so that it is very insensitive (but not completely) to incoming spin but it will not create heavy spin reversal. For the most part they will just "scrub" off the spin and give no-spin balls back or a little bit of reversal. Classic antis have excellent control, are easy to play and can be played very actively but do not provide reversal. A slick anti (like Dr. Neubauer Buffalo) is completely without any grip so that when you rub a ball over the surface you do not feel any resistance and it feels like a hard-plastic disc. Because of this it creates heavy spin reversal on passive blocks against topspin or on aggressive pushes against underspin. It is completely insensitive to incoming spin but more difficult to play because you have to get the bat angles right which requires some practice. Because it has no grip at all, attacking in particular against no-spin balls is very difficult, which is much easier with the classic anti. I hope this will help a little bit. ;)

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PostPosted: 30 Sep 2015, 01:36 
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This discussion makes me want to try my Donic Anti Classic again. A guy in our club gave it to me two years ago because it was not his thing.

Where would you place the Donic Anti Classic (soft sponge) in the continuum slick-grippy? I read somewhere it is 'in-between'?

Kees, you said Donic & Joola antis are different from the others. In what way?

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2015, 20:23 
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Recieved my Juic NeoAnti yesterday. Very soft indeed, borth sponge and topsheet... like TSP P-4. Nice quality (especially compared to GD soft Anti). Very low bounce when I droped a ball to it, and not any annoying sound like the GD has. I made some spin with the H8 side and then let the ball bounce on the anti side. Nothing happend, it just bounced a few times straight up and down at almost the same spot. The imparted spin had no effect at all. I am really looking forward to try this tonight :-)

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2015, 20:57 
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I played for 5 minutes with the Donic Anti Classic last Tuesday. It was on a Donic Persson Powerplay blade with an old crappy FH-rubber on it, so I avoided using FH and did only some chops against topspin. Very easy to chop balls back with a very flat arc and good speed. Opponent got some backspin back. More from pure reversal than from spin creation. I definitely prefer the LP-feel and the complexity of it. But I will try the Anti again later on a better setup.

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PostPosted: 01 Oct 2015, 21:08 
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Pipsy wrote:
I played for 5 minutes with the Donic Anti Classic last Tuesday. It was on a Donic Persson Powerplay blade with an old crappy FH-rubber on it, so I avoided using FH and did only some chops against topspin. Very easy to chop balls back with a very flat arc and good speed. Opponent got some backspin back. More from pure reversal than from spin creation. I definitely prefer the LP-feel and the complexity of it. But I will try the Anti again later on a better setup.


Yes, it is not as easy to get back spin with it. But if you wight in control and attacking possibilities it might be worth the sacrifice. I hav found out that few ha problems looping the first chop no matter what rubber you use. It is most like on the second chop you can impart the really heavy back spin. But I hav found that I rarely get to that point. Most opponents push back the first chop or my first chop was made whan running backwards and therefore it was not good enough and the next attack was a killer. Sometimes, if I am in position, I can chop a killer the first one with my MP. If I time it and the loop is not too fast I cen generate a massive back spin with that rubber. But much more often I miss when I try to attack with it or when recieving a serve with it. This is why I will continue to evaluate anti. I haven't done this before since when I have faced Anti I never thought it was tricky at all... And perhaps it isnot, but now when I have tried it I am still curious....

BTW: this anti-player is relaly good, he beat Filus :-) (I noticed him in the Buffalo-thread):
http://www.youtube.com/channel/UCaXd23M2ddVpuPz4bkJHvCA


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