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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2017, 17:50 
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Iron Pips
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Blade: Stiga Carbonado 190
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Hello! I have been thinking and changing a lot lately due to the new ball made of ABS-plastics. In Sweden most clubs have som sponsorship from Stiga and that introduced their new ball, Stiga Perform, this summer of 2017. Most other brands have their own ABS-ball or will follow soon. This ball is far superior to the old plastic balls with seam (like Stiga Optimum) but it rotates even less. At least the rotation decreases much faster/sooner than with other balls. So if you block with frictionless anti your block will be higher (less spin) and the back spin from the block is almost not present at all unless you block a loop from your push with inverted.

What changes have you done to adapt to this? Any change of material? Strategies?

I guess lp blockers have almost the same problems but perhaps the changendoes not appear as clear as for users of frictionless antis.

Neubauer are updating three of their latest antis to adapt them to this ball. It seems to work a little but they can’t really increase the spin from the opponent so unless you can’t make your opponent spin more it will only help a little.

I know Der Materialspezialist are working on a new anti but I guess it will take some time since they just released Diabolic.

Any other changes? I guess all major TT material producers will try to update their ordinary rubbers to get more spin and players will develop thechnique to generate more spin, so this problem might be solved by itself in a year or two. Also the balls will perhaps be better concerning spin with the next batch.

What will you do to adapt?

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2017, 18:57 
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Blade: Stiga Carbonado 190
FH: Xiom Omega V Pro
BH: Dr N Bison+ 1,8 mm
I have been trying different antis and blades and I also changed FH rubber since I felt that H3 did not work well with this ball. Mechanical grip instead of tackiness felt better. Xiom Omega V is very grippy, controlled in the short game and enough speed for all my shots. And it works great without booster, that is a huge plus.

I also tried Transformer, Diabolic, Bison, Bison+ (slightly improved for ABS ball) and Gorilla. I setteled for Bison+ because I felt that softness of Diabolic and Transformer ate much if the spin. Perhaps a thinner Transformer would do the trick but then there is the durability issue. So when Neubauer offered me to try the new Bison I went for that one. Instarted with having it on Invictus (rather flexable and controlled blade with lots of speed on high impact) but I never got comfortable with it there. I also tried in very briefly against a robot on Revolution and I did not like it there either. Also, Revolution does not feel that good for my FH with ABS-ball. So I then moved it to Stiga Carbonado 190 and that felt great. Ok spin reversal (much better than with Invictus) and great for attacking back spin. Blocks were ok in safeness but very low and with some back spin. Fast loops still difficult to block. And this blade is such a great one for looping. Lots of speed and spin and a huge sweet spot - I love it!

Now, this is up til today, but I am considering a bigger change for the future. I have been trying Gorilla in 1,0 original sponge a little. This is such a funnrubber and you can do lots of different strokes with it. It is fast like a normal rubber when you hit but also controlled for blocks. It works good on Revolution and that is where I will try it more thoroghly a little later (I am preparing for league gatherings now). But to use this anti I need to change my game pattern a lot. That takes time. And learning to handle the rubber takes time also. Perhaps I will try it more during christmas break but more likely I will wait to April when main season is over.

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2017, 21:07 
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this is what i wrote in Sriram thread so i dont repeat myself:

111Iceman111 wrote:
so, i am following a bit more closely to this guy lately...

my friend Josip Huzjak who is also regularly playing at that German tt Challenger played against him numerous times and watched him play...

he says that his balls and his pushes are so strange that i need to learn that...

so in the video above, at times 6:15, 11:20, 14:35 and whenever he is returning the serve with an anti push, that push he make is so dangerous...

if you watch closely the ball just skids low of the bounce, like he pushed it with a very grippy/tacky chinese rubber...and the opponent dont have any option but to push it back or to lift it with a very heavy spin...and both options we love...

why am i having such a long intro...bcs that push is very easy to do and i think that we cant do it with our frictionless antis that we are playing...
as i have understood, correct me if i am wrong, that gorilla anti he is playing with is much faster than our dampening block slick antis, and have a little grip...so, that is allowing him to do that motion...

and when he is blocking he can be more aggressive with it, especially important against that new generation of rotation-less plastic balls that are coming...

i was seriously considering to even switch to SP bcs of the plastic balls, but maybe this is a solution?

def attack, matt pimple and others that have played with gorilla, what do you think?


next to gorilla, i also have a sheet of ox sp terminator on my spare blade...it is difficult to play with it but very effective...

it is all so bizarre (rant incoming :rock: )...when i play my best game with old generation plastic balls slick anti works like a charm...and then i go to an away game where often they have this new rotation-less plastic balls and the difference is so high i feel like i am playing a different sport...it is not only that the blocks are not with heavy underspin but they are going all over the place bcs the ball just bounce from the anti like i am playing with inverted...i need to change the angles completely...i dont think that any other rubber is so sensitive...that is frustrating me so much that i want to change...and the worst part is that nobody believes me...i am playing bad and blaming the ball, and all the ppl, my team and the away team is like, yeah, we know, the ball..yea...tell me more... :envy:

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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2017, 21:56 
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Def-attack wrote:
What will you do to adapt?

I have to try more in depth my abs with abs balls. :lol:
If it doesn't work and my game will suffer... I'll try a faster anti like gorilla in a thinner sponge, learning to be more aggressive with anti.
This is my idea... also the joola amy control may deserve a try with abs balls...


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PostPosted: 19 Nov 2017, 23:06 
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Blade: Yinhe T-10+
FH: Butterfly Challenger 1.5
BH: TSP Curl P-2 1.0
Here in the USA the Nittaku Premium 40+ is what everyone uses.

Does that ball have the same spin problems?


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 03:45 
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BH: Transformer 1.5 mm
yes, its one of the worst :rofl:

try this test with every ball, and you will know for sure... https://youtu.be/WccJeu_pZMk

when i do that with normal plastic i get about 3-4 sec of rotation, when i do it with nittaku or dhs d40 i get barely 2 seconds...so not a 20%, but a 100% less rotation...thats how busted it is...

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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 03:58 
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Worse than G40?


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 04:04 
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dont know, try it and see...its really easy, i am doing that now every time...i exactly know how much rotation will i get or if my anti need cleaning...

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I must not fear. Fear is the mind-killer. Fear is the little death that brings total obliteration. I will face my fear. I will permit it to pass over me and through me. And when it has gone past I will turn my inner eye to see its path. Where the fear has gone there will be nothing. Only I will remain.


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 04:17 
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Iron Pips
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111Iceman111 wrote:
this is what i wrote in Sriram thread so i dont repeat myself:

111Iceman111 wrote:
...and the worst part is that nobody believes me...i am playing bad and blaming the ball, and all the ppl, my team and the away team is like, yeah, we know, the ball..yea...tell me more... :envy:


I have the exact same situation, really frustrating.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 04:26 
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So why do long pips have less trouble with these balls?


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 04:49 
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Blade: Tibhar Stratus PD
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BH: Grass DTecS ox
I have tried moving away from DTecS because of trouble with plastic balls generally. I think my league team is using Nittaku so no wonder it seems worse this season!
Bulldog

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 04:55 
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conradyoung wrote:
So why do long pips have less trouble with these balls?


They can generate a bit more spin and aren't AS reliant as the really frictionless antis. Especially those with dampening sponges...

With the slow, dampened ones if there isn't much spin on the ball -- then you basically just return a slow, low spin ball that is fairly easy to attack. It just seems to take a lot more skill to use properly, or a different mindset that most don't have.

I lose to quite a few people when I use the flanti, but when using LP or MP I can beat them pretty easily. For my game, I think it comes down to the speed. I block faster to the angles and give them less time, while still having enough 'funk' to cause troubles. Not as much as the flanti gives (against heavy spin), but the pips are also more unpredictable in that sense. It seems less uniform as to how the ball will be returned each time.

I've moved onto a kind of Dickie Fleisher, Haruna Fukoka kind of style with more hits and less passive blocks using a MP (super do knuckle). My returns are usually dead or with slight reversal, so the element of being different still remains, while giving me more options for offensive shots. I aim to do faster shots at awkward angles. With the slow anti, this was a problem because I had to hit quite a bit into the ball -- and in doing so, would lose control! Meaning many shots floated long or went into the net. A matter of skill there, sure. But I find the MP easier to play this style all around. And the benefit is, no trouble with reversal/humidity/no spin! Slick, slick LP is hard to use with those balls as well so the MP gives a hint more spin and increases my margins of attack, while maintaining enough reversal effects to aggressively attack pushes/chops/serves.

It's not good for the passive style of blocking. That one seems to be on its way out the door with each change to the game...


Last edited by skilless_slapper on 20 Nov 2017, 04:58, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 04:58 
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Blade: Nittaku Goriki SD
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BH: Tibhar Grass D.TecS OX
My solution...

Switch from anti to LP with 0.5mm dumpening sponge Toni Hold...
Increase attack’s possibilities without lost death balls...

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Blade Nittaku Goriki SuperDrive FH Donic Baracuda Max BH Tibhar Grass D.TecS OX
Blade Nittaku Goriki SuperDrive FH Donic Baracuda Max BH der-Materialspezialist Megablock 1.5mm
Blade Nittaku Goriki FH Donic Baracuda Max BH Tibhar Grass D.TecS OX
Blade Nittaku Violoncello FH Donic Baracuda Max BH Tibhar Grass D.TechS OX
Blade Nittaku Violoncello FH Donic Baracuda Max BH der-Materialspezialist Megablock 2.0mm


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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 05:21 
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Iron Pips
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conradyoung wrote:
So why do long pips have less trouble with these balls?


I don’t know. I played a lp blocker/defender using ABS ball last week. He adapted to that ball a lot better than me. He used Dornenglaz ox. Aggressive punches to my body and some blocks. I played horrible. But he played better than when I met him a year ago when we used some other plastic ball.

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PostPosted: 20 Nov 2017, 05:58 
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Joined: 16 Sep 2016, 09:37
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Blade: Nittaku Goriki SD
FH: Donic Baracuda Max
BH: Tibhar Grass D.TecS OX
I will be honest: I have abandoned the antitops several months ago, because I had seen that they were getting less effective with plastic balls.
That's why I have tried in the last 3 months:
- Hellfire OX
- Extermination OX
- Grass D.TecS OX
The best results: Grass D.TechS, but too fast with my blade.
Solution: 0.5mm dumpening sponge by Toni Hold...
Now it’s perfect combination for me..

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Blade Nittaku Goriki SuperDrive FH Donic Baracuda Max BH Tibhar Grass D.TecS OX
Blade Nittaku Goriki SuperDrive FH Donic Baracuda Max BH der-Materialspezialist Megablock 1.5mm
Blade Nittaku Goriki FH Donic Baracuda Max BH Tibhar Grass D.TecS OX
Blade Nittaku Violoncello FH Donic Baracuda Max BH Tibhar Grass D.TechS OX
Blade Nittaku Violoncello FH Donic Baracuda Max BH der-Materialspezialist Megablock 2.0mm


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