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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2018, 05:02 
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Chopoleon Bonaparte
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I was watching this video from Ademir Balaban (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cB2a0o9 ... =WL&t=107s), and I see he mostly blocks loops right off the bounce, holding his bat at 90 degrees or even a bit more closed, very similar to what you'd do with OX long pips. I've found other sources suggesting you need to open your bat a bit to block heavy loops with frictionless antis, and in this video, Amir Ahmed seems to push forward a bit in blocking most of the loops: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Vz2RES7DKA

Anyone have a view here that could help explain the difference or elucidate what the better approach might be? Thanks.

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PostPosted: 21 Jul 2018, 21:27 
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Grip/wrist stiffness? Slight racket movement?

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2018, 08:35 
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Having had a go at frictionless anti some time ago, I really struggled finding the right angle as well. This was particularly against hard spinny loops, where the natural tendency is to close the bat angle a little... which simply does not work with frictionless anti.

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PostPosted: 31 Jul 2018, 10:12 
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haggisv wrote:
Having had a go at frictionless anti some time ago, I really struggled finding the right angle as well. This was particularly against hard spinny loops, where the natural tendency is to close the bat angle a little... which simply does not work with frictionless anti.

This was in particular the case with the older generation of frictionless antis but it has been improved with some of the newer antis and/or by going to a thicker sponge. However, coming from other rubbers, figuring out the right bat angle is still the biggest issue when switching to frictionless antis. In particular on hard shots it also helps to hold the bat more lose but this needs to be practiced quite a bit. With the new ABS ball it is also more important than before to block the ball right off the bounce to keep the ball low.

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2018, 01:24 
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I'm good with the blocking-right-off-the-bounce part (a natural instinct from my usual OX long pips setup ... though, in fact, I'm finding that with anti, I can even take it a bit later than I would with long pips, and as long as I get the angle right, I'm okay), but the problem is that if I use the same blocking angle I use with long pips the ball often does a nosedive straight down. So I have to block with a slightly open blade, sometimes even with a slight push forward. I'm trying out the Dr. Neubauer ABS 2.1mm right now, and the dampening effect is huge, while the reversal seems good enough, but I need to give it some time to see if I can get the angle right.

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2018, 06:22 
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TraditionalTradesman wrote:
I'm good with the blocking-right-off-the-bounce part (a natural instinct from my usual OX long pips setup ... though, in fact, I'm finding that with anti, I can even take it a bit later than I would with long pips, and as long as I get the angle right, I'm okay), but the problem is that if I use the same blocking angle I use with long pips the ball often does a nosedive straight down. So I have to block with a slightly open blade, sometimes even with a slight push forward. I'm trying out the Dr. Neubauer ABS 2.1mm right now, and the dampening effect is huge, while the reversal seems good enough, but I need to give it some time to see if I can get the angle right.

Yes your bat angle has to be more open than with pips and the more spin the more open which seems counter intuitive. Only on slow loops should you apply a slight push forward because any motion during the stroke tends to decrease the reversal so if you don't need to push, don't push. Unfortunately there is no easy fix and it will require some practice like a few months to have it automated.
I have not tested the ABS 2.1mm yet but as a matter of fact I glued it on to my spare bat last night and hope to test it tomorrow or Thursday. I have actually played with a Dr. N prototype anti the last few weeks which I liked a lot but I can't say more about it...

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2018, 08:48 
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It has to be open a bit more than with LP. The more spin it has, the more open it needs to be! By open here, generally it would be around 90 degrees. Basically straight up and down. Same thing with back spin, but you hit into the ball there to return a fast top spin/no spin.

Against fast balls you let the pace return itself, against slower ones you'll need to bump into it a bit. Watch Amelie Solja for some of that technique.

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2018, 13:44 
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Matt Pimple wrote:
the more spin the more open which seems counter intuitive.

Yes it does seem counter intuitive, but I do think you're right, but can't figure out a logical explanation for it.... can you?

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2018, 14:07 
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haggisv wrote:
Matt Pimple wrote:
the more spin the more open which seems counter intuitive.

Yes it does seem counter intuitive, but I do think you're right, but can't figure out a logical explanation for it.... can you?


Yes, when you normally block a top spin shot with regular rubber -- it kicks up, hence why blocks more often go long against slow top spin.

With frictionless anti spin, the ball is blocked back as back spin. So when it hits the rubber, it turns into back spin and dives down. Just the same as if you were to flip a table half way up and top spin against it. The ball drops down as back spin and bounces back to you.

With regular inverted, the ball grips the rubber and actually reverses spin. Top spin goes back as top spin etc. the anti doesn't actually reverse at all! It just passes spin through, while changing the balls direction.

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2018, 15:08 
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While I do like your explanation, I don't think it's complete.

If what you're saying is true, it would be even more so for long pimples (in OX) because they have more reversal (due to much smaller contact area), but it's not.

Also what we're talking about here are hard and fast loops, where the curve on the ball is minimal because the speed is so high.

I think the only explanation is that for fast loops, the harder it hits the rubber, the less it grips, so you need to open the bat angle more. The question remains though, why would this not also be the case of OX LPs?

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PostPosted: 01 Aug 2018, 15:40 
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haggisv wrote:
While I do like your explanation, I don't think it's complete.

If what you're saying is true, it would be even more so for long pimples (in OX) because they have more reversal (due to much smaller contact area), but it's not.

Also what we're talking about here are hard and fast loops, where the curve on the ball is minimal because the speed is so high.

I think the only explanation is that for fast loops, the harder it hits the rubber, the less it grips, so you need to open the bat angle more. The question remains though, why would this not also be the case of OX LPs?



Frictionless anti has much less grip than the current allowable lp in ox. More reversal by a large margin! Like the mega block or dr n bison. You'd have to compare it with the old frictionless lp. I do have a sheet of the dr n super block frictionless lp and the same holds true with it needing to be opened.

I test all of these with an amicus pro robot where it has independent speed and spin settings. I.e. slow loops or fast heavy loops

You can test it fairly well with just a bare blade, no rubber on it. It will rebound fast but the angle will be similar

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