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 Post subject: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 05:58 
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Can someone explain how anti spin can be tacky and still not be spinny?

I'm looking for a substitution to frictionless long pips and just wondering how anti spin can be tacky and still "work."

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 Post subject: Re: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 07:17 
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I have never seen an sticky anti.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 10:41 
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"This is not slippery rubber, it has a tacky top sheet." from description for Gambler Reflectoid on zeropong website

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 Post subject: Re: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 11:19 
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That rubber is slow. It has a spin rating of 70. That makes it a slow inverted, not what is normally considered anti. It will not reverse spin like anti, it will just react to spin less than a spinny inverted. It will also make less spin than a good inverted. Could be useful for someone that does not do well against heavy spin.


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 Post subject: Re: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 20:47 
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I thought Reflectoid was a relatively slow spinny chopping rubber, very different from anti.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 11 Mar 2019, 21:27 
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Dusty054 wrote:
I thought Reflectoid was a relatively slow spinny chopping rubber, very different from anti.


Yes. Reflectoid is rather unique as far as smooth rubbers go (mostly because of sponge), but it's not an anti. You can serve and loop with it just fine, especially with a brushing stroke, plenty of spin. Great to defend with.

You are probably confused by name - there is an antispin rubber Der Materialspezialist Reflection.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 01:33 
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What do you know about Friendship 804 anti? What's the major difference between it and the very expensive Dr. N, is it the sponge or the top sheet?

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 Post subject: Re: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 02:17 
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gus_goose wrote:
What do you know about Friendship 804 anti? What's the major difference between it and the very expensive Dr. N, is it the sponge or the top sheet?


I'm not a huge Anti expert ( I tried and still have only two), so take it with a massive grain of salt. I believe there are two rather distinct types: 'classic' and 'frictionless'. The first one, like Nittaku Best Anti (#1 I tried), are very slow, but topsheet still has some grip. The frictionless ones (DMS Diabolic, the other one I have) are like glass.

I think Dr. N, DMS, S&T mostly target the frictionless segment. And yes, they are expensive! I suspect Friendship 804 is a 'classic' type.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 03:25 
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The Spinlord Sandwind might be worth checking out. It's classified as a "half-anti." The topsheet is close to anti, yet if you engage the sponge, the rubber can create spin. It is very slow. It is great for blocking. it creates some weird trajectories, and due to the fact that you can create spin or no spin depending on how you contact the ball, opponents will often not be sure what's on the ball. You can loop with this rubber, but you're not going to be generating any super-spinny topspins. I used it for awhile with the old ball, but I found it too slow and not sufficiently capable of generating spin with the heavier, more rock-like new ABS ball. But it's something to consider. It does take some getting used to to tap in to all its properties.

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 Post subject: Re: Anti explanation
PostPosted: 12 Mar 2019, 03:31 
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Back in the 1970s Butterfly made something called Sriver Killer (which was really dead and pretty slick - I only ever encountered it once). Other companies made anti - I think Yasaka's was called Knuckle. Then sometime in the early 80s Butterfly came up with their current product - Super Anti. This had more grip and the idea, I suppose, was to allow you to actually attack with it. Eventually Sriver Killer was dropped (maybe due to poor sales?). One wonders how the current crop of frictionless antis compares with the old Sriver Killer.

Another thing I've seen posted in the past is that the frictionless antis don't last long. Whatever they do to it to make it frictionless wears off in a month or two (remind you of something? :lol: ), while the old Sriver Killer would last decades without any change (perhaps a reason why sales were poor...? ).

Incidentally, from what I understand, anti was initially developed to control loops - back then the heavy brush loops ("slow loops") were almost unreturnable, what with the 38mm ball and all, and a lot of top players used anti just to be able to return loops. Back then there was also no two color rule, so there were players who twiddled when they served, etc. Black rubbers were very far and few between, both Sriver and Sriver Killer were red.

Incidentally, if you are, for some reason, looking for a dead slow rubber that has plenty of grip and doesn't cost very much, try Reactor Ckylin. It was way too slow to be usable by me. I suppose Tackiness Chop would work, too, but it'll cost four times as much. Problem is the sponge - it only comes in 2.2mm.

Iskandar


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