OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I have been always curious about the design methodology of various anti rubbers.

To start with I request that you provide the following information for each anti you have used.

1. How slick (frictionless) is the top sheet 10= Extremely slick 1= least slick
2. Does ITTF measure top sheet friction ?
3. How lively or dead is the sponge ? 10= very dead 1= very lively
4. How hard is the sponge 10=very hard 1= very soft
5. How long are the pips 10= Max long 1=Min long (I know this is a hard question for any inverted rubber as you can’t see but if you take the waste part of the rubber after you cut the rubber once it is glued to the blade , you can at least get a visual estimate If not actual measurement. I may be wrong but I think rubbers like Tenergy 05 etc (I know they are not anti by definition but defensive spinny inverted rubbers Butterfly Tackiness or Donic Slice may have short pips) .
6. How stiff or flexible are the pips (Again you can tell only by examining cut sheets)
7. Is the top sheets factory treated with some chemical ? Yes or No (Again I may be wrong but I think some are and some aren’t)
8. What is the pip density (an estimate) ? 10 for highest allowed (30 pips / sq.cm) 1 for lowest density of 10 pips / sq.cm
9. Pip orientation Vertical or Horizontal
10. Lowest & highest sponge thickness your brands come in.
11. Spin reversal (your estimate)
12. Deception (your estimate)
13. Do you classify this rubber as a traditional anti or frictionless anti
14. Anything I missed

Of course manufacturers as usual will claim each & every one of their rubbers are magical & can do a little bit everything & their brand is the most revolutionary invention since the dawn of time LOL . If you characterize your rubber clearly you can better understand what exactly it is good for & can & cannot do
Much appreciated.

Hello, are you trying to make your own antispin rubber ?

_________________
Setup 1
Blade - Gerry Viscaria Super ZLC
FH - Tuttle G20 President
BH - Slick antispin

So far, there is no clear-cut criterion to tell Anti from non Anti. ITTF did not determine friction limits for Anti type as yet. Factually, you're free to specify any inverted sandwich as Anti.

We strongly advocate the need for having clear-cut limits on kinetic friction, say CoF within range 0.25 - 0.50 for all the rubbers labeled as Anti type.

Be happy.

Who exactly is "we"? Does this mean there is at least one other person with the same ideas as you out there?

_________________
Equipment:
OSP Ultimate, FH: Dr. Neubauer Dominance Spin Hard 2.1, BH: Dr. Neubauer Troublemaker 0.5
YouTube channel: "AntiRules"

"no clear-cut criterion to tell Anti from non Anti"

Even if a player doesn't ask the other player what type of rubber it is, anyone beyond a recreational player would know it's anti after just one or two balls in warm up. I don't see the issue here.

I swear, if ITTF does something to get rid of the new anti's, I'm gonna quit playing tournaments. First, the pips restrictions. Then, the new ball. Are they trying to drive older players and mid-level players out of the game?

Maybe we need to look at how much "bounce" a sponge/rubber combination a traditional inverted has and put limits on that. Or how about a maximum spin ratio?

People who don't understand the basics of playing against anti or pips will always look to reduce their effectiveness because they don't want to have to think during a match. But that's one of the things I love most about the game, the tactical element. Pips and Anti are relatively straightforward to know what to do to defeat them. If anything, it's more difficult to win with them. Otherwise, wouldn't most of the top pros be using them?

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

I would appreciate if someone can provide details on some of the most popular frictionless anti rubbers such as Gorilla, ABS2, Barna Glanti etc based on above design parameters. I am most interested on items 1 and 3 above

This is a very interesting question because if I am not mistaken, when someone talks about treated rubber they are mostly talking about "liquid" "chemical" treatment of the rubber.

However if you look at the reason given by ITTF for ban of TSP Curl P1 was that lot of players were microwaving the rubber. In a way this may also be a "chemical" alteration of the rubber at the moleculer level may be, if not with liquid chemicals ?

But if I show up at a sanctioned tournament with a 45 year old racket (with say Sriver rubber both sides) that I found in my grandfather's attic, could it be the best frictionless anti ?

I've played against people in past tournaments whose rubbers were VERY old, clearly not cared for, the properties of which were obviously vastly different than they were intended to be. And yes, unfortunately it would be considered "legal", unless the rubber is "damaged" in some way. If there isn't a rip in it, or bubbles, you could play with an old inverted rubber that was now dead and funky.

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Hi, everyone

The proposed rule (just a subject for ITTF expert discussion for now) that actual CoF limits should be restricted to at least 0.25 for all pips-in rubbers is primarily designed so as to preclude the substandard materials from competitive sport. A good many players in lower leagues would enter competitions with trashy, low friction materials, far different from original condition. It is much a fraud giving a player unfair advantage a lot.

Again, India did defeat China more than once, just using the fancy materials, you know. We don't want our sport to take character of a game of chance, а kind of Funfair lottery.

Antis and pimples will never take over the sport. Too much people want to be purely offensive and play the counterporn kind of game. It is just impossible to happen that everyone will play with pimples or antis. After a certain level it becomes a liability rather. Also, it is just needless to think of rules when the ITTF's new regulations are always one that makes the work of pimples and antis harder, see the greater and heavier ball with different manufacturing mechanics.

_________________
"Spin is my only way, haven't got else to say. Have you checked your anti? Let it all for you untie!"

Blade: Dr. Neubauer Matador (flared handle, 7-ply, allwood, OFF-)
Forehand Rubber: Butterfly Dignics09C (2.1 mm, black, hybrid)
Backhand Rubber: Der Materialspezialist Scandal (1.2 mm, red, frictionless)
Playing Style: Modern Defender