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Anti: Sponge effects on speed
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Author:  antipip [ 06 Dec 2008, 03:35 ]
Post subject:  Anti: Sponge effects on speed
Hi: I'm trying to find out if thicker sponge means quicker for anti as it does for reversed rubbers.

I've tried Joola anti loop in 1.5mm black and 2.5mm black on a toni hold blade. I found the 1.5mm to be play slower.

If you've played the same anti rubber in different sponge thicknesses (By same I don't mean toni hold i mean any anti make in the same colour just a different thickness) I'd appreciate your feedback. I'd like to see the rubber name, thicknesses, colour and blade tried on.

Some sponges such as hallmarks are supposed to play slower. I thought this was a new innovation and didn't apply to prior anti loops. Am I wrong? Is it that on a slower blade thinner will play slower with (normal antis)? On a quicker blade will thicker play slower? Will one play slower regardless of blade? I don't know and I'd like your help to figure it out.
Author:  mynamenotbob [ 06 Dec 2008, 04:37 ]
Post subject:  Re: Anti: Sponge effects on speed
antipip wrote:
I've tried Joola anti loop in 1.5mm black and 2.5mm black on a toni hold blade. I found the 1.5mm to be play slower.

If you've played the same anti rubber in different sponge thicknesses (By same I don't mean toni hold i mean any anti make in the same colour just a different thickness) I'd appreciate your feedback. I'd like to see the rubber name, thicknesses, colour and blade tried on.

Some sponges such as hallmarks are supposed to play slower. I thought this was a new innovation and didn't apply to prior anti loops. Am I wrong? Is it that on a slower blade thinner will play slower with (normal antis)? On a quicker blade will thicker play slower? Will one play slower regardless of blade? I don't know and I'd like your help to figure it out.

I disagree that Joola Toni Hold is slower with 1.5 sponge. The 2.5 is significantly slower. Most antis from Butterfly Super Anti to Juic Neo Anti to Yasaka Anti Power to Nittaku Best Anti get slower with thicker sponge because anti sponge usually deadens to ball. The original Dr. N Gorilla (pre 1.8 sponge) and Grizzly are two rare exceptions.
Author:  Robot Blocker [ 06 Dec 2008, 21:16 ]
Post subject: 
speedplay wrote:
Agree with MNNB on this one. Most antis are slower with a thicker sponge as the sponge kills the speed. I doubt that the blade affects it as I think that any given blade is faster then any sponge used, so a thinner sponge will always give higher speed.

Then there are some rare antis with an "active" sponge, but those are rare.


I believe 729 804 falls into this category!

Any observations on this anyone?
Author:  haggisv [ 06 Dec 2008, 22:27 ]
Post subject: 
Yes that is true... the 804 has the standard 729 HRS sponge, which does not really slow down the ball at all...
Author:  antipip [ 06 Dec 2008, 23:56 ]
Post subject: 
Thanks guys, keep posting: I seem to be in the minority here so i'll give the 2.5 another go.

I've put the 2.5 black back on blade and got some 1.5 red on another blade, which is the same. I'll give the 2.5 a proper go this time. I only used it for a short while and probably not at a high enough standard to really test the rubber out. I was mainly hitting with it. It might have been the sponge reacting to give more spin which I took for an increased speed (I think that the rubber mainlky kills the spin and the sponge the speed but that they do interact and affect both).

Haggis do you know which antis have absorbant sponges and which don't?

If I find the 2.5 black slower than the red i'll stick a 1.5 black on the same blade then.

Oh I have tried the new toni hold hold 0x and 1mm. The 1mm is way way way faster but this may be all due to different sponges, if indeed the 0x sponge is a sponge.
Author:  antipip [ 13 Dec 2008, 23:36 ]
Post subject: 
Sorry but i've been ill so not really been able to try properly again yet.

Speedplay: If I find 2.5 black slower than 1.5 red i'll then try 1.5 black. It could well be the sponge reacting a little to spin or enabling me to put more spin on that I noticed.

Had a push and I don't like 2.5mm TH, I can't seem to feel the ball on that thick a sponge (about 80% of perceived feel comes from sound). Will try it against a proper player at some stage though, it might now be after christmas. Only had low impact speed practice. It didn't seem to flat hit as fast. I should be able to tell better at higher impact speeds, who knows I might be able to feel the ball then.

I have also used the Joola toni hold antipin long pimples in the past; in 0.5 and 1.2. The 1.2 was the quicker version. I could barely get the 0.5 to the net. This stuff is now illegal anyway, but the 0.5 was the slowest stuff i've ever found. The sponge was very soft and a weird green colour. The pimples seemed to have no effect whatsover, it was like using really really slow anti loop - very controlled - not funny at all.
Author:  RebornTTEvnglist [ 13 Dec 2008, 23:53 ]
Post subject: 
mozzy wrote:
speedplay wrote:
Agree with MNNB on this one. Most antis are slower with a thicker sponge as the sponge kills the speed. I doubt that the blade affects it as I think that any given blade is faster then any sponge used, so a thinner sponge will always give higher speed.

Then there are some rare antis with an "active" sponge, but those are rare.


I believe 729 804 falls into this category!

Any observations on this anyone?


804 felt like I had ice on my blade, ball was totally uncontrollable. I played a couple of games against someone I normally would beat and lost quite easily. Went back to my LP (at the time) set up and began beating him again! That was 1.5 sponge on W6 (not a real fast blade) and I could barely keep a ball on the table with a block. :o
Author:  haggisv [ 14 Dec 2008, 07:51 ]
Post subject: 
antipip wrote:
Haggis do you know which antis have absorbant sponges and which don't?


The 804 is the only one I know of with a non-absorbant sponge, although the Dr N Gorilla and Grizzly standard sponges may be in the same boat, as they seem to be fast.

I've tried the 804 with a 0.6mm chinese sponge on a slow blade, and it's actually remarkably slow and controllable, and even has decent spin reversal...
Author:  antipip [ 26 Dec 2008, 22:09 ]
Post subject: 
I know why I found the toni hold 1.5 to be slower than the 2.5 when I first tried it, and consequently filed the 2.5 in the too quick category.
I was looking to to replace the 1.5 toni hold because it didn't have ITTF logo on it (it was the original slow stuff about 10 years ago), the 2.5 was Toni Hold but it was the joola ITTF version and was consequently much quicker, as indeed is the 1.5 in the ITTF Joola version.

I don't like the 2.5 (no feel) and can play with the 1.5 know as I changed blade.

Since then the joola antispin pips have been slower in the lower sponge version, the Ellen def is 1.5 against attack (2), the new toni hold 40 0x is slower without sponge than with 1mm so that had been my experiences with antis in different sponge thicknesses. The anti special is slowest in 1.2mm as well according to and e-mail I received from the Neubauer people.
Author:  haggisv [ 27 Dec 2008, 23:22 ]
Post subject: 
The blade makes quite a difference too. A fast blade can make OX feel real fast, whereas a slow defensive blade can make it feel slow...
Author:  haggisv [ 27 Dec 2008, 23:32 ]
Post subject: 
speedplay wrote:
I must admit that I'm a bit surprised the Neubauer claims that the 1.2 sponge on the Special Anti is the slowest amongst them, as this actually suggest that it is an active sponge in use, yet he claims the rubber to be very slow. I would expect the sponge to be "dead" and more of a dampening sponge...

In fact, I question this so much, so I think that either he don't know what he is talking about, or this is yet another failed rubber from him. My interest in trying it out has faded some after reading this...


Yes I agree... It might be a case of being slower for one strokes, but not for another...
Author:  fosssil [ 02 Jan 2009, 18:40 ]
Post subject: 
Hi,

I had a sheet of Butterfly Super Anti Special, and the sponge from that was the slowest I have seen, and I use that separated sponge from the BSAS as a base for all of my tricky rubbers...and all that is required is for me to place the bat in the road and the ball goes back over the net with whatever reversal I have wanted to put on it... and the sponge tends to make many rubbers do things to the ball that is not a normal shot for that particular rubber.

fosss
Author:  mynamenotbob [ 03 Jan 2009, 00:42 ]
Post subject: 
fosssil wrote:
I had a sheet of Butterfly Super Anti Special, and the sponge from that was the slowest I have seen, and I use that separated sponge from the BSAS as a base for all of my tricky rubbers...and all that is required is for me to place the bat in the road and the ball goes back over the net with whatever reversal I have wanted to put on it... and the sponge tends to make many rubbers do things to the ball that is not a normal shot for that particular rubber.

I've never been able to successfully remove the sponge from Butterfly Super Anti Special without destroying it. How did you do it?
Author:  fosssil [ 03 Jan 2009, 09:18 ]
Post subject: 
Hi mnnb...I placed the rubber between two layers of cloth (tea towel) and put the Iron on max heat and max steam and first ironed the rubbers side for about a minute and then the sponge side for a minute and then alternate at 10 seconds a side until the rubber is very hot...I needed to use rubber gloves to touch the rubber, but the sponge came off very easily with maybe a little residue on a few of the pips...but not lumps or anything like that...I think if i had ironed it for longer I wouldn't have been any residue on any pips.

fosss

PS...so I can easily get the rubbers off next time I just spray the rubber with a contact glue spray marketed in Oz as Septone contact spray which is available in most car parts and things shops...and then when the next rubber comes off I just give the sponge a quick wipe with thinners which makes it tacky again, and on goes the next rubber...pips or inverted...that way i can just take a bit of thinners to practice and change rubbers in a few seconds...well...less than a minute..

mynamenotbob wrote:
fosssil wrote:
I had a sheet of Butterfly Super Anti Special, and the sponge from that was the slowest I have seen, and I use that separated sponge from the BSAS as a base for all of my tricky rubbers...and all that is required is for me to place the bat in the road and the ball goes back over the net with whatever reversal I have wanted to put on it... and the sponge tends to make many rubbers do things to the ball that is not a normal shot for that particular rubber.

I've never been able to successfully remove the sponge from Butterfly Super Anti Special without destroying it. How did you do it?
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