OOAK Table Tennis Forum

I have not much experience in playing vets tournaments.I actually started last year with Mornington tournament, and this year I played in Dandenong tournament. Since I had decided to get more experience in this area of competition, I entered Geelong tournament held on 15 April. I entered the singles in division 3,4 and 5 and the doubles in division 3 and 4.

I did not have my own double partners whose playing style I was familiar with. I was given two double partners whom I did not know well. So, we could not work together well in adjusting our game and adopting right tactics. We could not progress to the second level of the competition.This failure taught me a lesson. Never enter any double event unless you have your own partner whose level and style you know very well.

In singles, I was progressing well. I could beat some very good players on the way and I thought I had a good chance to progress to the final of the division 4. Unfortunatley, this guy E who came with Reb entered the division 4 at the last moment. Frankly, I thought that the officials should not let it happen. Anyway, E knocked me down in a very close encounter. The final score was 3-1, but all sets were won by 2 points. There was a Geelong Club member who badly losed to E. He was very angry about E's entry to the division 4 and criticised the whole Dandenong Club for winning lower divisions by sending players of higher levels.I somehow joined him in criticising Dandenong Club president for acting like the owner of the club.

Now only division 5 left for me.I thought it could be an easy competition. However, I found out that it was not easy at all. First, I had to beat this nice gentleman and OOAK Forum member, Malleus. Then a couple of other tough competitors. The Asian lady who played with short pimples was a fierce competitor. Then came the final. Another nice gentleman and OOAK Forum member, Oskar.

I thought I did not play this final with some intensity. I made some errors in reading Oskar's serves at the beginning and some of my forhand strokes were inaccurate. However, I was able to adjust my game quickly and win the match eventually(3-1). I was rewarded with some prize money after this win. So, I would say "What a nice Day?"

My intention right now is to try win the divisions 3 and 4 in any available vets tournanment. I must improve my game in some areas. I must avoid my mistakes in reading different serves and playing forehand strokes while improving my tactics against funny rubbers, especially against anti-spin rubbers.

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S/U 1:Primorac Carbon Offensive- BH Joola Maxxx 40 Max, FH Andro Rasant Powersponge Max
S/U 2:Primorac Carbon Offensive- BH Joola Maxxx 40 Max, FH Andro Rasant Beat Max
S/U 3:TSP Hino-Carbon-BH Stiga Boost TX Max, FH Joola rhyzm 375 Max

Najay you have to put the division 4 thing into perspective. Both E and I are unrated, as you are. This means tournament officials have no idea of how strong you are, and quite frankly E had no idea of the divisions strengths either. Having played on tournament I figured he and I would stand a good chance of playing off in the div 4 final, but nothing is ever certain. You are capable of beating me or E when you are on your game. I am capable of beating E at times, but this is rapidly decreasing as he is getting stronger all the time. By the end of the long day, I was too beat to put up much fight when it proved he and I did make the final. If we had not been allowed into div 4, we would have travelled a long way to Geelong for very few games. I was knocked out of round 1 of div 3 by Foam, and out of div 2 in round 1 effectively by the number 1 seed (although I got a "pre-game" qualifier match). E had almost the same path in div 2 and 3. So besides the few doubles matches we had we would not have had many games, because both of us have our strength somewhere between div 4 and 3 in reality. I am sure that it happens often in tournaments where there is a knowledge gap between players and organisers knowing where the players fit, and this won't be the only time you encounter it. You just have to roll with it I think, as it doesn't take long for players to become rated, and then there is no doubt about where they belong. And to be quite frank, your strength was really too high for division 5, so its really no different to E being in div 4.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

It was great to play against you and meet you Najay. Did the video turn out? I look forward to meeting you at future tournaments.

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Blade: Andro Kinetic Supreme Zylon/Kiso Hinoki OFF-
FH: Hexer HD 1.7 mm sponge
BH: CTT National Pogo OX
Style: FH counterhitter, BH disruptor

Very good recording. Thank for your help. I hope I could meet you guys soon.

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S/U 1:Primorac Carbon Offensive- BH Joola Maxxx 40 Max, FH Andro Rasant Powersponge Max
S/U 2:Primorac Carbon Offensive- BH Joola Maxxx 40 Max, FH Andro Rasant Beat Max
S/U 3:TSP Hino-Carbon-BH Stiga Boost TX Max, FH Joola rhyzm 375 Max

There was quite a lot of talk going on about the previous Dandenong tournament results, I heard that 8 out of 10? or more divisional events were won by unrated Dandy players? I don't think the people high in command at TTV are very pleased. They were aware that Reb, (E) especially are better than Div 4 and weren't happy about it. But they just can't really refuse an entry when the player has no rating and they don't know them. Since Dandy and a few other smaller clubs wont use the rating system it's a problem for them.

I can see why Najay entered Div 5 even though he's borderline too good for Div 4 himself (I would have been happy to let him enter Div 4 until he rates though because it will be close). He's been entering tournaments and doing the right thing but been getting pounded quite unfairly by his own unrated club members at the tournaments he's entering and that's got to suck. He needed some wins to get a rating so that's what had to happen. I felt quite sorry for him having to play (G) in Dandenong in Div 4, that was ridiculous. About as ridiculous as that whole tournament was .

Once Reb gets game enough to enter an event like the 040s where he is sure to get beaten he will get a rating, he needs only one more loss I believe. I'm sure Najay has more than enough wins and losses to rate as of next months list which will be . And (E) has 6 wins and 2 losses so he needs another 2 losses to get a rating, that's as simple as entering the 040s once. So that'll be 3 more Dandy players sorted despite the club itself not entering results , almost worth cracking a champagne

I think Najay will have a real shot at winning Div 4 in Bendigo especially if Reb and E don't play or don't enter Div 4, considering one of the TTV selectors runs the Geelong tournament and will be doing the Bendigo divisions and also was paying close attention to the both of them, I'd almost challenge them to try that twice lol. Or in Rebs case three times .

Najay you probably can win Div 3 with some more experience sometime in the next year or so too, so that's a good goal to aim for.

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Donic defplay senso
Haifu whale soft (grips-euro)
Nittaku pimplemini 1.0mm

So Foam you don't think I will get rated in the next list now having 4 losses (even if one was to the unrated E)?

TTV may well dislike unrated Dandy players, but we ourselves are not that keen on being unrated as once you are rated it makes it all clearcut. I'd have been happy to receive a rating after Mornington if they gave me one. Not sure if Najay has entered Bendigo, but he can have the thing to himself lol. Quite frankly, if people are going to make you feel awkward for entering tournaments, I'll just pass on it all and not bother entering again.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

There's no need to feel awkward, everyone knows your a Division 3 player at least, you made the final in Mornington and won Div 4 there without breaking a sweat. I know you entered Div 4 in the last moment because you had a tough draw in Div 2 and 3, if you never saw the draw you wouldn't have done that and I'm sure you knew it would cause some controversy with real Div 4 players. If you entered the 040's (I know you had a bad experience with that a couple years ago but you are a stronger player now) you could have also played more games which is more the class of player you want to be playing.

What you needed was to lose a couple extra matches. You could enter two Div 4 tournaments every year for the next 100 years and never lose one but you would also never get a rating, or if you did manage to lose enough matches it would be a low rating anyway Just try the 040s instead next time and see what happens

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Donic defplay senso
Haifu whale soft (grips-euro)
Nittaku pimplemini 1.0mm

Well to be honest, I seriously thought I was going to lose my first match in Div 4 at Geelong to a 700-odd player. And then thought I could lose to the 800-odd player I played in the semi. I don't feel I am so much better than those guys that I couldn't lose to them. I think at Mornington I got lucky making the div 3 final as I scraped through 2 tough games in 5 sets. The funny thing about it was that CA was probably one of the easier players, yet I lost to him due to being so damn tuckered out.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

Wow, for all the critisizm of the USATT system, this takes the cake. It is not the people causing the problems, it is the system. Must have 4 losses to get a rating is part of it. A person could play for 20 years and never get a rating. In USATT, you get a rating based on who you beat or lost to first tourney. If you are unrated, most tourneys will not let you advance to the money events so no way an unrated person can take an event he should not be in.

If an unrated player shows up at a tourney, some places will have a high rated player have a hit with them. Then an initial rating will be assigned to allow them to enter only appropiate events. If an unrated player only plays one match, he gets a rating based on a system that takes into account the rating of the other player.

If your system got rid of the "four losses" thing, a persons rating would only be able to go up. That would prevent someone entering lower events continuosly.

I see a system problem. Just my thoughts.

I have to agree Hookshot. I figured they'd be able to assign me a rating after the first tournament and was surprised (and a little disappointed) that they didn't. But I figure you play to the rules they set. Foam is right though. We entered the lower division because we figured we travelled all that way for a draw which was going to see us out early, due to being unrated players put against the top seeds (which is what happens with unrated players). If we had a rating we would have got to play lesser players to begin with most likely, so not needed to enter somewhere where we would get a few games in. Effectively the system pushed us to do what they now say they didn't like us doing, yet we only did what the system allows so we didn't get the complete raw end of the stick. Can't have the cake and eat it too. Either give people a rating and a fair draw, or expect them to want a way to extract their own "fairness" in whatever path the system allows.

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I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

yes sounds nuts to me as well lol, a normal system is about winning/and loosing to get a rating ,not loosing 4 times

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Blade Ulmo Duality| FH Tibhar mx-p Black, Dawei 388D-1 red OX
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There's a lot of problems in the way TTV is run, on the other hand it's the only State in Australia with a real rating system so although there are problems with the system at least there is a system.

It's all too complex to go into at the moment, for now we just have to work around what is there, so long as you know the problems you can work around them. The rating system does need some work and a bit more complex formula to automatically identify and then smoothen (inject points into players on a steep ramp of improvement), no doubt about that.

_________________
Donic defplay senso
Haifu whale soft (grips-euro)
Nittaku pimplemini 1.0mm

Korean amature TT has a lot of these controversies. Coaches submit their players to play such and such division at local, regional and national tourneys. Often, they get classified as say National div 3, when they are a real strong div or weak Div 1 player. Div 4 of National level tourneys is the toughest as there are a shitload of players in div 4 who could compete to be in th efinals of div 2 and likely advance if they played div 2. Our club got an earful from a tourney director of one of these national tourneys when we placed a visiting KFTTC player as div 3. He was the same skill as our club #1, who also made the finals of that tourney in div 3 and defaulted to our KFTTC player, who had to go to duece at 5th set a LOT while our club #1 cruised to finals winning 3-0 often.

Any system can be gamed. What kinda keeps the Korean system in check is the enemy coaches make a big fuss if someone is grossly under-rated. USATT system can be gamed by losing a few close matches to improving players.

The way to get rid of all of this is to make everyone equal and get rid of divisions or rated events and have just the open for singles/doubles/team. NO ONE wants this though. Too many crash out and lose heart. That is why divisions of roughly equal skill were created. Such a system will never be perfect and prone to abuse/manipulation.

Myself, here in Korean I am an ever-improving player. I showed up here as city standard div 4. I started taking lessons in March 2010, went deep into several tourneys as div 4, then by end of year coach placed me in div 3. I did pretty OK in div 3 regional tourneys and eventualy placed 3rd in last year's city tourney in Div 3. After that I became div 2 and advanced out of every group, sometimes falling to the finalist right away, sometimes falling ot the finalist later. This year I am expected to compete to go to the final of div 2. (The group div 1 and 2 toigether and spot the div 2 player 2 handicap points a match when div 2 faces div 1) The city tourney is this weekend and I hope to have a lot of pics and a report.

I have heard all the talk about me being under-rated, but I get moved up in standard as I move up in skill level. Our club has had 2 players who are under-rated as div 1 city standard. They both should be Div 0 and spot the div 1 crowd 2 points a match. That level is real hard to assess as all players at that level are strong and dangerous to take out top players when they get on a roll.

The coaches and fellow players are in the best position to know the proper level of a player and the system gives a lot of subjective judgement to the coach and tourney director. That is how it should be if everyone is straight forward about it all. Problem is that too many want to win too much and a lot of monkey business ensues.

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Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter

BTW, it sounds like all of you who went to this tourney had a lot of chances to compete and enjoy a lot of TT, plus forums like this are a great way to share and feel proud of what you did, as well as rib your friends/enemies.

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Goof-off chopping bat
Gambler All Rosewood
Aurus Soft / Gambler GXL .6 sponge

Status - Out of Business Janitor/Babysitter

I just want a rating as soon as possible. I know this is how many, many people I've spoken to feel. It has always seemed quite weird to have to lose 4 matches, even though it's not that hard to do as long as you 'punch above your weight'!

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Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear