OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Yes, the good thing is that at least there is a system in place in Vic. It's a big job to oversee the process and we have to bear in mind that it is done by volunteers. There are of course improvements that could be made. I think the current practice of giving more weight to tournament results compared to pennant results leads to problems - the most obvious of which is the over-inflated ratings of many Vet players. Personally I like the ELO system used in chess where each game is rated with equal weight - it is extremely accurate.

TTV have a pretty good software system in place where a club can quite easily enter results (pennant, club-champs or whatever) on-line - it just requires volunteers to do so. Once the results are in they are automatically used for rating purposes. Croydon really have their act together and have someone from every grade entering results. My club never used to enter pennant results until I started doing Section 1's a few seasons back. I have subsequently roped in a Section 2 player to do his grade and further down the track I hope to get others to enter their grades results. Once the initial setting up process has been done it only takes about 5 minutes per week to enter the results for a grade. There is also a volunteer who you can email or call if you need assistance. With this in mind there is no reason why Reb or another Dandy cronie couldn't register their pennant results online. The same is the case with those from other associations such as Ballarat. If anyone is interested let me know and I will give you the name of the guy who can help you set things up - it's really not that difficult.

The issue of submitting a club's pennant results was discussed informally at my club last Monday. The main problem for our club seems to be that while it works well for the middle grades, it fails for the higher or elite grades because of lack of competition for certain players (one player in particular). We have one player in the top grade who rarely loses a match and if his pennant results were submitted they wouldn't accurately reflect his ability on a state level. Would it possible for these easily identifiable players to be made exempt from this system? Or is there another work around? I know that my club has the support of many players to start submitting pennant results to make the whole TTV rating system more accurate. And it would give players like myself a rating more quickly.

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

The first thing to note is that you don't have to enter results for every grade. Hence, if you wanted to do your grade only or some middle grades then that would be fine. The more results in the data-base the better. Also, I'm sure it would be ok for you to enter the results for all of the matches previously played in your grade this season - if you did this you would have a rating for sure the next time they come out.

As for the issue with your top player (I presume it is MS) I don't really see it as much of a problem. His rating would pretty much remain unchanged from pennant (he would get virtually no credit for wins and drop some points if he happened to lose) and it would be up to him to compete in tourneys or Melb pennant if he wanted to up his rating. The rest of the grade would still get the benefit or otherwise of having their results entered.

One added advantage of using the TTV software for results is that it automatically generates a ladder and leading player list so this would save work for the person running the pennant. Furthermore, any member can log on to check the latest results as well as the ladder and leading player list. To give you an idea check out Croydon's site:
http://www.insports.com.au/ttv/cdtta/default.asp

I do like your reasoning, carbonman. As I said, it was an informal discussion and it was also stated that if this issue was argued a little more - especially with the kind of reasoning you've provided - then it's only a matter of time before a club like Ballarat cooperates. Yes, you're right, the player in question is MS.

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

You obviously haven't read the numerous posts I have made as to why it cannot be done. There is one huge reason! The committee at Dandy don't want it done! Can't enter results that you don't know cos the scoresheets are taken and never seen again. I actually asked to check something once after I submitted our sheet and was told its not allowed! I, and others, have asked why not many times and get runaround answers each time, so I don't know the real reason why they don't want them entered. Seems to come down to an issue of "control" or "power" somehow I think.

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red National Pogo Ox
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs Ox
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 BH Red Dornenglanz Ox
Table tennis directory / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

In that case, do as I will, join the committee! Problem solved.

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

Oh man, you live in a different world of TT...or should I say I (we) do. You don't just get on the committee at Dandy. Someone has to die for that to happen lol. And even then, it would need to be just the right person! Pay more attention to Najay's posts will you?!!

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red National Pogo Ox
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs Ox
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 BH Red Dornenglanz Ox
Table tennis directory / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

What sort of place is Dandy? Sounds like a militant third world country to me.

I apologise for implying that the culture of Ballarat was somehow transferable to a club like Dandy. My sincerest apologies.

For context, I have been invited to apply for a spot on the Ballarat committee, which I am seriously considering doing.

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

Sorry Reb I didn't realize that was the case. It is certainly a disappointing state of affairs for poor ole Dandy. Maybe they don't want enter the results because some of the players haven't paid their TTV rego???

Oskar's join the committee idea is a good one. "President Reb" has a nice ring to it.

Oskar the reason MS isn't rated on 1700 or 1800 points or however good he is.. Is because he only plays one tournament a year and that's country week. Where he can only gain points to a certain level which isn't as good as he is.

Then he takes inactive penalties each 6 months because he's had no results in the system. Which over many years, leads him to have the low rating he has. If his pennant results went in, even if he never losses a match he will at least hang onto the points he gets at country week, which over the time means he would have been on 1700+ if pennant results would have been in. This is true for almost the entire Ballarat country week team players.

I've been entering the results for my club for a couple of seasons, even though there's not many players I feel like it's a very important thing to do so I'll keep doing it. One problem I have here is that the majority of players are taking inactive penalties even though they are active, our seasons dates are outside the cut off points for not getting a penalty.. I need to have a word to someone about that because everyone is going to end up with half the rating they should be on. Carbonman I had read a little about the Elo system and it seems like just about perfect, making the change sounds like it would be a fairly big deal and probably come across some opposition though.

In the end if the current system was used how it's supposed to be used, most of the problems would go away without changing anything. I agree If pennant results were given more weight to help blend Juniors with Seniors and Vets and everyone entered results. Even the problem of no seniors entering senior events might go away

_________________
TG3 / 802

Admittedly, many of the issues raised still makes me feel like I'm thrashing about in deep water. As a potential administrator, I appreciate all this information, even if it feels (at the moment) like I don't know what the hell anyone's talking about. When I can place it in a context and learn more about the system I hope to be able to address it. Of course, I am idealistic, but I trust this won't be the only talent/vice I possess!

_________________

Weapon 1: Andro Kinetic Supreme Hinoki/Zylon OFF-; Andro Hexer HDs (FH 2.1/BH 1.9)
Weapon 2: Ross Leidy 'Smokey'; Friendship 729-5s
Club1: Daylesford - since 2010
Club2: Ballarat - since 2011
Blog: A Naked Bear

Well I don't know about anyone else but I'm giving Bendigo a shot, it's the furthest distance tournament for me so it's a bit of a hard slog, last year I drove up there at 3am or something stupid on a couple hours sleep and didn't play so well. I got through just a couple matches in Div 2 and a couple in Div 3. This year I'll try and sleep up there and see how that goes

_________________
TG3 / 802

Mornington is closer? Does the Ferry make it so?

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red National Pogo Ox
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs Ox
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 BH Red Dornenglanz Ox
Table tennis directory / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.

Well I wasn't really counting Mornington since it's after the team selection and a tournament for fun, which is why not everyone shows up, but yes it's about the same distance with the Ferry. Next time I play Mornington I'm going to stay in the city and then drive down in the morning from there. Staying in Geelong and then doing the ferry didn't work out as well as I imagined. I'm still not sure how I'm going to get to Bendigo, might have to catch the bus yet but I'll get there somehow

_________________
TG3 / 802