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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 14:08 
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After our final league match, we came joint 2nd, but were held to be third on account of "games won". Here are the final results:

Other team:
Played 10 Won 4 Drew 3 Lost 3 For 64 Against 36
My team:
Played 10 Won 5 Drew 4 Lost 1 For 58 Against 42

In this league you get:

- 4 points for 10-0, 9-1, or 8-2
- 3 points to the winner and 1 point to the loser for 7-3 or 6-4
- 2 points each for 5-5

Looking at these stats, I am not sure I think that accurately reflects the stronger side. We lost only one match, against the league winners, and won more matches.

What do you think?

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 15:11 
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I agree. I think rather than the point system, the number of wins might be a better indication of the stronger side.

I can see some merit in the point system though. IN our system you only get points if you win, so if you have a real tight match that comes down to games or even points, the loser walks away with nothing... which is a big rough. In your system you'd get at least something.

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 15:29 
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Yes, I think the point system works well, as it gives the weaker team something to fight for. What I am not sure is correct is the decision to look at overall won vs lost games vs overall won vs lost matches. I am sure it could be argued both ways, and I may only be objecting in this case because it's my team on the disadvantaged side.

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 15:37 
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I'm pretty sure our system ranks them by the number of wins... it used to be win/loss ratio percentage, but they changed it to number of wins as it was deemed to be better for determining the strongest teams to make the finals.

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 15:46 
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Just thinking this through (because if, on reflection, I really think this isn't fair, I'll need to raise and defend it at the league AGM)...

In the summer league, which I run, we have a simple win/lose/draw rule - winners get 2 points, draw is 1 point each. In the event of a tie break, we look at games difference. That makes sense, because we're explicitly not applying any weighting to margin of victory in the points system, and we're looking at overall victory margin across the season in the event of a tie.

However, in this league, we explicitly do apply weighting to margin of victory, so if two teams are equal on points, I'm not sure it makes sense to reapply a cross-season victory margin metric to differentiate, so instead we look at "matches won" instead?

Does that make sense? Or does the counter-argument stand? We've already rewarding winning and losing in the points score, so in the event of a tie, we *should* look at individual games scores, rather than reapplying a "who won most" measure?

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 17:00 
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Do what they've done in soccer leagues, make wins worth three points and draws worth one. That way there'd be fewer ties.

Now, as to the question posed - if there's a tie, how about counting matches won, and then, if there is STILL a tie, then you'd go with total number of games won? (And if there's STILL a tie.. heaven forbid.. then you count the total number of points earned in the games..) :lol:

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 19:49 
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Why don't you make the match numbers unequal so that you cant have a draw?

I like a point system rather than all or nothing, no matter how close the result, but the system still should advantage the wins and penalise the losses (and hopefully make draws impossible). So maybe bump up the points for the wins, so it does that?

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PostPosted: 12 Apr 2016, 20:21 
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LordCope wrote:
Does that make sense? Or does the counter-argument stand? We've already rewarding winning and losing in the points score, so in the event of a tie, we *should* look at individual games scores, rather than reapplying a "who won most" measure?

Well if you're really looking for the strongest teams, it's got to be the teams that can put wins on the board, because in finals or tournaments that's what matters. Point scores don't really tell you who's the better team either, as there could be players that never win a match, and you'd still be crediting them with points, which means nothing if they can't win a game in finals or tournaments.

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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2016, 07:36 
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ITTF rules for determining rank in in round robins (at least my off the cuff recollection of them) have the following priority:

Match points - 2 for a win, 1 for a played loss, 0 for a forfeit
Wins - simple count
Ratio of rubbers won to rubbers lost (teams only)
Ratio of games won to games lost
Ratio of points won to points lost

Note that win is an overall win for the team, and a rubber is another name for an individual match in a team match.

At each stage if there is a resolution then the ranking stops.

If 2 or more teams/players are equal at one stage then only the results between those teams/players are considered to resolve the tie. So if there is a tie between 2 teams/players then it is who won between them.

Your competition is effectively a long drawn out round robin.

Having said that, my local pennant competition records the number of rubbers won as the points in the competition table. :)

Does your league have a stated resolution rule for this situation?

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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2016, 16:20 
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The system might have merits but I don't particularly like it. Use win/loss as the primary but use those other things for tie breakers. Your team definitely better. I also don't like that you get big points for a flogging. If a team has one player pull out sick and get flogged, it could hurt the closeness of the whole competition.

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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2016, 17:39 
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Similar thing happened in our favour in our league and even though the other team had a superior games won/conceded difference we were awarded runner up because we beat that team twice,feels fair from this side of the coin

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PostPosted: 13 Apr 2016, 17:46 
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dazzler wrote:
Similar thing happened in our favour in our league and even though the other team had a superior games won/conceded difference we were awarded runner up because we beat that team twice,feels fair from this side of the coin


Just because you match up better over one particular team, I don't think that should put you above them over the whole competition. Fair enough to use it as a tie breaker though and is used in other sports.

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