OOAK Table Tennis Forum

First USATT tournament!
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Author:  Ma_Xin [ 20 May 2018, 13:51 ]
Post subject:  First USATT tournament!

It actually went better than I thought mainly thanks to Ox LP.

Style (ugly):
* Penhold block/bump/moving them around, RPB if I see a ball to put away. I also side-swipe occasionally on serve receive to surprise people. 90% backhand...my FH hits are not reliable at all against tourney-level opponents.
* Only twiddle on serves. I can twiddle at other times too but haven't found a plan that works, and my FH sucks.

In group stage we had only 4 guys because one guy didn't show up. I beat a 1156 little kid 3-0. The last two games tho I basically had no real advantage (he got told how LP works) and won by 2. One of them he had game points after deuce. I was just a bit more calm and tricky as an adult in critical points. (He played very well against a 1800 player, and later beat a 1400 and lost to a 1430, so I think his level is about 1400.)

I then advanced to Division 3 based on the 1 win/2 losses and 1 win by default. I was placed into the strongest group out of the 3 groups, unfortunately. My only win was a small 3-1 upset against a modern defender little kid (see the pattern? :lol: ). He's rated 1533, later beat a 1640, eventually ended up in 3rd place in Division 3 after losing narrowly to a 1632. Another unrated player in my group was the runner-up and probably around 1700. Then another 1600-level guy...

Anyway about the upset, I think he also has LP (or SP?) on BH for chopping. Some other guys had trouble when he moved/chopped well especially at nervous times. I just played it very safe and kept the ball in play no-spin style, and moving him left and right, either really deep or short...he wasn't as comfortable just bumping the ball around not chopping, so he would miss more. When he attacked with his quite aggressive FH, he still missed more than I'd think. One thing young kids lack is definitely composure and adaptability. He's so used to people looping at him all day.

Also in this match, my RPB loop kills down the line had a high success rate. Definitely due to the no-spin and my patience to only do it at the right time. I felt a sense of accomplishment somewhat akin to players I see in videos... when I suddenly blasted the ball past him.. I basically beat a defender with his own style. He had a pretty famous coach in this area and I wonder what he said to the kid. I've heard the coach give him very good advice to help him come back in other matches. (For some reason, I imagine he didn't teach him much against me, because he'd probably never run into another LP penholder...)

So he's probably around 1600, but I don't have a chance against a 1600 looper. The other 5 matches didn't have much worth mentioning. Strong players' loops spell doom for me...(from 1600-2000 guys)

I also had a leg cramp in the second to last match, trying too hard to RPB a short ball at 3-10...didn't affect play much tho because I rarely move.

Main takeaways:
* People always have issues with LP in the first game (won 2, and nearly 3 times in lost matches), even if they seem to understand how to play against it.
* From game 2 on, they usually figure out my play...the good players destroy me; the not-as-good ones I use a bit of variation (RPB push, sideswipe, net balls etc.) to stay alive/win.
* Technically, the #1 problem is spinny loops. I believe I'll need to add the downward motion like the pro LP penholders do to chop-block them. Practice a bit today to good effect. Or move the paddle back at contact. Seems only a human (not robot) can do these loops right (robot is either too fast or not enough spin)
* My half-long TBH serves get absolutely destroyed by 2000+ players. And 1700+ also to a large degree. So, they are kinda deceptive in that they seem to work well against guys below a certain level
* I love people serving regular short backspins - I bump to their body or wide FH. My weakness is fast FH serves

Also, what do you guys think my rating will be, and how do I check or get notified?

Recently I suspected I was a 1300, but it seems a bit higher now.

Author:  Cobalt [ 20 May 2018, 21:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: First USATT tournament!

Nice to see you played above your original estimate, well done.

Author:  pgpg [ 20 May 2018, 22:33 ]
Post subject:  Re: First USATT tournament!

Results will be posted here, once tournament director submits them for processing (can be on the following Monday, could be 3 weeks later):

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Table-Tenni ... tings-Page

You won't get notification though, so keep checking.

Author:  Ma_Xin [ 21 May 2018, 03:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: First USATT tournament!

Looked a bit at how the ratings are calculated. It's pretty clear that if a player has improved a lot since the last tournament, it will take more than this one tournament to reflect that.

For the 1156 little kid, it looks like he'll gain about 60 points based on the one win against 1400 and several wins against lower-ranked foes. Is he really just a 1216 player tho? I don't think so. He almost took 2 games off the 1800.

The other thing I omitted is the "1600-level guy" who beat me 3-1. He's officially just 1323. But he beat the runner-up in 3 close games. He might become 1400 at best after this event. I guess it makes sense though to require that you consistently beat better opponents to eventually reach their ratings.

When I played him, I could feel his power was sightly lesser, and he didn't adjust his serves against LP like some other guys. He also had some trouble with my weird serves. I got 8 points in 2 of the lost games but I never had a real crack. At the time they all looked kinda "world class" since I couldn't reach or keep their loops down, it doesn't matter if the power is more or less.

It looks like my initial rating will be around (1533 + 1323)/2 = 1428, taking the average of best win and worst loss. Maybe slightly higher since both these guys will be moved up.

It may be a bit too high but I'd take it...

* DO NOT look at ratings of other players before the match. This helped me relax and focus on the play.

Author:  Reniculous [ 21 May 2018, 04:55 ]
Post subject:  Re: First USATT tournament!

So the part of the rankings calculation that will make it impossible to predict prior to the results coming out is going to be the pre-match adjustments that help to deal with what you're currently talking about.

They'll never take close losses into consideration when it comes to making an adjustment, but if you come in as a lower ranked player and score quality wins over players whom you're not supposed to have even the faintest chance against, they adjust the initial ranking used for your ranking calculations.

Due to this, and how you've described it - it's very possible that those players could see severe initial jumps in their rating before the match calculations are factored in.

Anyway, the reason is to protect the ranking of players whom are getting blindsided by clearly under-ranked players and the like.

Rankings have a ton of moving pieces like that, and especially when you throw in unranked players and the like, it's just really hard to say definitively what will happen!

(But it should be a nice initial rating for you irregardless.)

Great work!

Author:  Ma_Xin [ 06 Jun 2018, 09:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: First USATT tournament!

Ratings finally came in...1477.

Some of these guys played a recent tourney right before this one so they are stronger than on paper. The 1156 little kid is 1400 level, so even if I didn't beat the defender I'd be about 1440. This is pretty reassuring in my judging of his play. I also had the feeling that the pips should give any 1400-player some trouble, but 1500 less so because of elevated looping.

The math doesn't really check out for me. The other guys are adjusted up more than I thought. They also messed up and completely vanished a new guy because his name looks similar to another in our group :lol:

Overall the rating system seems like a good yardstick. It makes every match significant regardless of how far you proceed that day.

Author:  Silver [ 06 Jun 2018, 13:42 ]
Post subject:  Re: First USATT tournament!

good job.

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