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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 06:10 
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Very interesting point made on a post at noppen-test regarding the new ball size.

Adham is on the record as saying "there is no 40mm ball in the world. All of them are slightly bigger than 39.5mm." Therefore the 38mm ball was actually increased only 1.5mm. Now if the absolute minimum-sized ball will be 40mm with a tolerance to 40.5mm, the average wonld be around 40.25mm, which would be a .75mm increase.

That means this latest ITTF ball size increase will be 50% as large as the original increase!!!

Factor in a bigger, bouncier, less spinny, one-piece ball made of different materials and this new ball could have a more significant impact than anyone expects. :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 06:58 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Adham is on the record as saying "there is no 40mm ball in the world. All of them are slightly bigger than 39.5mm."


Adham has already said a few things, that are probably not true, like "celluloid ban" etc. Why should we automatically believe this one?

To clarify that thing about the actual ball size, I suggest those of us, who have the necessary tolls just measure the balls the have and report the results.


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 08:13 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Very interesting point made on a post at noppen-test regarding the new ball size.

Adham is on the record as saying "there is no 40mm ball in the world. All of them are slightly bigger than 39.5mm." Therefore the 38mm ball was actually increased only 1.5mm. Now if the absolute minimum-sized ball will be 40mm with a tolerance to 40.5mm, the average wonld be around 40.25mm, which would be a .75mm increase.

That means this latest ITTF ball size increase will be 50% as large as the original increase!!!

Factor in a bigger, bouncier, less spinny, one-piece ball made of different materials and this new ball could have a more significant impact than anyone expects. :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:


You can find the proposed changes at the 2011 AGM and whether they passed or failed here:

http://www.ittf.com/world_events/wttc_2 ... pdated.pdf

You really can't conclude what you've concluded from the available information. You'd have to know more precisely what the typical ball diameter is and how much each ball varies. The tolerances for the new non-celluloid balls are tighter and the mid-point of the ranges is about .3mm higher. The maximum allowable diameter of a single ball is only .1mm greater than before. So if you had to guess, you might guess that the average balls diameter measurement would increase by .2-.3 mm. But that would still just be a guess.

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 09:28 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Very interesting point made on a post at noppen-test regarding the new ball size.

Adham is on the record as saying "there is no 40mm ball in the world. All of them are slightly bigger than 39.5mm." Therefore the 38mm ball was actually increased only 1.5mm. Now if the absolute minimum-sized ball will be 40mm with a tolerance to 40.5mm, the average wonld be around 40.25mm, which would be a .75mm increase.

That means this latest ITTF ball size increase will be 50% as large as the original increase!!!

Factor in a bigger, bouncier, less spinny, one-piece ball made of different materials and this new ball could have a more significant impact than anyone expects. :puke: :puke: :puke: :puke:


I think you are right on all counts... We will see.


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 10:08 
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Six unused Nittaku 3-star white balls per my digital calipers:

1: 39.6mm
2: 39.6mm
3: 39.6mm
4: 39.7mm
5: 39.6mm
6: 39.6mm

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 10:20 
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roundrobin wrote:

I think you are right on all counts... We will see.


He failed to consider what the size ranges were for the 38mm ball and what the typical diameter of a 38mm ball was. If he's right on all counts, it will be as much to do with random luck as anything else.

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 10:22 
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nathanso wrote:
Six unused Nittaku 3-star white balls per my digital calipers:

1: 39.6mm
2: 39.6mm
3: 39.6mm
4: 39.7mm
5: 39.6mm
6: 39.6mm


Now measure some DHS 3*, Butterfly 3*, DoubleFish 3* and some Nittaku Premium 3* balls.

Also, are you taking multiple measurements from multiple positions?

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 10:29 
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nathanso wrote:
Six unused Nittaku 3-star white balls per my digital calipers:

1: 39.6mm
2: 39.6mm
3: 39.6mm
4: 39.7mm
5: 39.6mm
6: 39.6mm


Thanks a lot.

So we have on average slightly bigger than 39.6mm, which is 0.1 mm bigger, than in Adham's statement. Let's see, what others will find out.


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 10:38 
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wturber wrote:
roundrobin wrote:

I think you are right on all counts... We will see.


He failed to consider what the size ranges were for the 38mm ball and what the typical diameter of a 38mm ball was. If he's right on all counts, it will be as much to do with random luck as anything else.


From visiting Chinese provincial team members who actually used the new DHS seamless ball, their understanding is new size has been increased by close to 1mm... So a 0.75mm increase sounds more than reasonable to me.


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 10:52 
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roundrobin wrote:
wturber wrote:
roundrobin wrote:

I think you are right on all counts... We will see.


He failed to consider what the size ranges were for the 38mm ball and what the typical diameter of a 38mm ball was. If he's right on all counts, it will be as much to do with random luck as anything else.


From visiting Chinese provincial team members who actually used the new DHS seamless ball, their understanding is new size has been increased by close to 1mm... So a 0.75mm increase sounds more than reasonable to me.


Is that their understanding because someone told them that or is that their experience - subjective or otherwise? Too bad they didn't bring some samples to LA.

If they are making the seamless ball a size very close to the maximum limit, then a .75mm increase is very possible. If this turns out to be true, then it would seem that the ITTF is using the new ball design to smuggle in a larger effective size. And if this is true, it may help to explain the talk of celluloid bans, cellulose fiber health scares and so forth.

I do find it a bid odd that the average size of a 40mm ball would be close to the lower size limit rather than hovering somewhere in the middle of the acceptable range.
I'd like to see if the other brands are also about the same size.

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 11:04 
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Jay,

That's a lot of "if"s... but you get the gist. :)

As I said, we will see...


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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 13:06 
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nathanso wrote:
Six unused Nittaku 3-star white balls per my digital calipers:

1: 39.6mm
2: 39.6mm
3: 39.6mm
4: 39.7mm
5: 39.6mm
6: 39.6mm

That's great! Perhaps we should start a new thread where everyone who has a vernier can submit their readings?

it would also be interesting to see if used balls are significantly smaller...coz if they're not, we can measure any balls to get a better average...

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 13:32 
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I saw some guys playing with a 44mm ball at one stage and I'm sure it wasn't made of celluloid. The bounce and sound of the thing was terrible. I hope it wasn't made of the material they are proposing for the new balls. While they'd be smaller than the horrific 44mm "thing" I saw, I doubt they'd bounce much better if they were anything like it.

My robot came with a "measuring tool" which is just a round plastic circle. The balls I am using just go through it without touching the edges of the tool, but I don't know how accurate this is. I might have to measure the tool to see if its exactly 40mm or if it allows for the upper range of the laws.

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 23:43 
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haggisv wrote:
nathanso wrote:
Six unused Nittaku 3-star white balls per my digital calipers:

1: 39.6mm
2: 39.6mm
3: 39.6mm
4: 39.7mm
5: 39.6mm
6: 39.6mm

That's great! Perhaps we should start a new thread where everyone who has a vernier can submit their readings?

it would also be interesting to see if used balls are significantly smaller...coz if they're not, we can measure any balls to get a better average...


DHS 3*, Nittaku 3* Premiums, Gambler 3*, Gambler Gold, and 729 1* balls all fell within the range of 1.55 to 1.56 inches on my mechanical dial calipers. That converts to a range of 39.4mm to 39.6mm.

The 38mm Nittaku 3* and 38mm Stiga 3* balls that I have came in between 1.47 and 1.475 inches or a range of 37.34mm to 37.465mm. So the size increase really was 2mm.

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PostPosted: 06 Sep 2011, 23:52 
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Its going to be interesting to see how the new material and the seamlessness will effect the new ball. I wonder if the added size will really make it spin that much less because it's possible with the new material the ball could be slightly heavier or lighter. Plus the increased size should reduce the spin and speed, but I guess the only way to really know is wait.

I'm kinda looking forward to trying the new ball. Even though there will be a major change in our sport I don't feel the change will change my view of the game. I enjoy playing now, and I'm sure I'll enjoy playing after the london olympics also:) All I know is as soon as the balls are available in Michigan I'll go get some from Americantabletennis with sparkly eyes just like getting a new sheet of rubber to try:)

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