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PostPosted: 09 Nov 2011, 14:29 
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wturber wrote:
There's not much "if" to it. Quite a few of us have done a fair bit of measuring with calipers across a wide range of ball brands and qualities. That's where the 39.65mm comes from. That's why I said, .4mm - and maybe more. I'm allowing that it could be more than .4mm though I doubt that it will be much more if history is any indication.

We had a thread right here on the forum, where people submitted their reading. of course i can't find it :oops: :lol:

wturber wrote:
Was the original intention to make a ball that was 40mm or to increase the existing ball diameter by 2mm? My assumption was that it was neither. My assumption was that the idea was to slow the ball down. This new non-rule seems to be another step toward doing that a little bit more. And if you look at how the rule was passed and the amount of misinformation being spread by top officials at the ITTF regarding this, you might be a little bit concerned.

Personally, I hope the new ball is superior and great. But the heavy-handed tactics would not be necessary or even advisable if it were. So that leaves me a bit concerned.

I agree completely...Why change the tolerance just because you're changing to new materials? If there was a technical reasons for it they should declare it. Making the change just small enough so that it falls within the current tolerance so that no vote is required seems sneaky and underhanded. Any changes that will significantly affect the game should be voted upon.

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PostPosted: 09 Nov 2011, 15:26 
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haggisv wrote:
wturber wrote:
There's not much "if" to it. Quite a few of us have done a fair bit of measuring with calipers across a wide range of ball brands and qualities. That's where the 39.65mm comes from. That's why I said, .4mm - and maybe more. I'm allowing that it could be more than .4mm though I doubt that it will be much more if history is any indication.

We had a thread right here on the forum, where people submitted their reading. of course i can't find it :oops: :lol:


Hahaha! Try page 1 of THIS thread Haggisv! Classic! :rofl: :rofl:

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PostPosted: 09 Nov 2011, 15:28 
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RebornTTEvnglist wrote:
Hahaha! Try page 1 of THIS thread Haggisv! Classic! :rofl: :rofl:

Bugger! :@ :@ :@ :lol:

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PostPosted: 09 Nov 2011, 16:06 
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wturber wrote:
There's not much "if" to it. Quite a few of us have done a fair bit of measuring with calipers across a wide range of ball brands and qualities. That's where the 39.65mm comes from. That's why I said, .4mm - and maybe more. I'm allowing that it could be more than .4mm though I doubt that it will be much more if history is any indication.

I apologise if my post seemed to be disbelieving. I hadn't read those "measuring with calipers" posts.

So, your measurements agree with what Sharara is saying - below 40mm. If the tolerance becomes just over 40mm then your suggested .4mm becomes a pretty good estimate of what may happen. As I posted, it could be worse, it could be better. A .4mm increase when compared with the previous full 2mm increase is 20% , not:
mynamenotbob wrote:
That means this latest ITTF ball size increase will be 50% as large as the original increase!!!

Even the worst case scenario of .85mm is still only just over 40% and not yet 50% and that is the worst case scenario.

wturber wrote:
Was the original intention to make a ball that was 40mm or to increase the existing ball diameter by 2mm? My assumption was that it was neither. My assumption was that the idea was to slow the ball down. This new non-rule seems to be another step toward doing that a little bit more.

And a jolly good thing that is. My impression is that this would be favourable for LP/combination players, no? As to "original" intentions, the rule is quite clear:
"2.03.01 The ball shall be spherical, with a diameter of 40mm.
2.03.02 The ball shall weigh 2.7g. "

The change to the regulations simply clarifies what that means: 40mm is not less than 40mm.
"The minimum diameter of every ball must be at least 40.00mm and its maximum diameter must not exceed 40.60mm."

wturber wrote:
Personally, I hope the new ball is superior and great.
Me too.

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PostPosted: 09 Nov 2011, 17:09 
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There's no reason to increase the ball size at all...other than the original big ball was a failure and rather than admit they were wrong the ITTF is compounding their mistake by increasing the ball size even further + plus changing the design and materials. This group has no respect for the game. It's really disturbing what they're doing to our sport.

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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 00:43 
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Tassie52 wrote:
wturber wrote:
There's not much "if" to it. Quite a few of us have done a fair bit of measuring with calipers across a wide range of ball brands and qualities. That's where the 39.65mm comes from. That's why I said, .4mm - and maybe more. I'm allowing that it could be more than .4mm though I doubt that it will be much more if history is any indication.

I apologise if my post seemed to be disbelieving. I hadn't read those "measuring with calipers" posts.

So, your measurements agree with what Sharara is saying - below 40mm. If the tolerance becomes just over 40mm then your suggested .4mm becomes a pretty good estimate of what may happen. As I posted, it could be worse, it could be better. A .4mm increase when compared with the previous full 2mm increase is 20% , not:
mynamenotbob wrote:
That means this latest ITTF ball size increase will be 50% as large as the original increase!!!

Even the worst case scenario of .85mm is still only just over 40% and not yet 50% and that is the worst case scenario.

wturber wrote:
Was the original intention to make a ball that was 40mm or to increase the existing ball diameter by 2mm? My assumption was that it was neither. My assumption was that the idea was to slow the ball down. This new non-rule seems to be another step toward doing that a little bit more.

And a jolly good thing that is. My impression is that this would be favourable for LP/combination players, no? As to "original" intentions, the rule is quite clear:
"2.03.01 The ball shall be spherical, with a diameter of 40mm.
2.03.02 The ball shall weigh 2.7g. "

The change to the regulations simply clarifies what that means: 40mm is not less than 40mm.
"The minimum diameter of every ball must be at least 40.00mm and its maximum diameter must not exceed 40.60mm."

wturber wrote:
Personally, I hope the new ball is superior and great.
Me too.


There's a lot of info in this thread. Maybe you should have read it first before jumping to so many of your conclusions.

The ITTF rules are famous for lack of clarity. The change in the regulations isn't a clarification. It is just that, a change. The question is why the change? You are simply ignoring this, the original question that you posed.

And while a .4mm diameter increase doesn't seem like much, keep in mind that there is no accompanying weight increase that comes with it. Also keep in mind that the area of a circle (a big factor in air drag) increases with the square of the radius. A .4mm increase to a larger ball is more significant than to a smaller ball.

And finally, keep in mind that the new ball can be pressurized up to 3 atmospheres.

But my main complaint, as I said before, is the misinformation disbursed by top ITTF officials regarding celluloid and its safety. I wonder how much of this misinformation was fed to voting members. Also, the wording of the change is sometimes prefaced by the disclaimer that these rules only apply to non-celluloid balls. But the actual wording change carries no such stated exception. This could present a significant problem because they must pass through regulations based on the wording change that was voted on. But with the vote being based on "non-celluloid only", how can they do that and still maintain the intent behind the actual vote?

Again, I strongly suggest you read the entire thread if you are interested in this subject.

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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 01:46 
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As the purpose of a forum like this is to share information and discuss it in order to entertain players and help them on as well, to me it seems worthwhile that various and different perspectives on the matter of the new rules on balls are posted here, since it is impossible to have a discussion without having different perspectives, even if some seem to be far-fetched or defy general belief. Unorthodox ideas help us to keep in mind that what we think we know is almost always a partial truth at the most and reality is a lot more complex and hence bewildering than we would be ready to admit. That is why art is suppressed by tyrants (as you will appreciate, Jay, being a photographer). I will, therefore, go on trying to post in as challenging a way as I can, without the intention of being disrespectful to anyone, and I invite everybody to do the same. As all opinions are biased in some way, challenging them seems very necessary to me. Those of you who have read my posts know that I love the sport and that to me the variety of styles is very precious. I strongly objected to the ban on frictionless long pimpled rubbers and feel the same towards any rule which is a real threat to a variety which should be cherished instead of persecuted.
Having said this, I would like to point out that in my opinion it is useless to question Sharara's intentions, or those of other members of the board of the ITTF, unless this questioning is followed by action to counter the ITTF's policy, and oust Sharara and those who think and do like him. I will support any such action, even if I am sadly aware of the fact that new board-members will eventually do the same as Sharara and his sorry lot, because this is how power works – it corrupts and only, or mainly, the corruptible seek it for that very reason. If no action is taken, I will be just as happy helping to figure out how to deal with the, then, inevitable new ball and frustrate any malevolent intent the board may have with it. I guess this will take a creative effort. Unorthodox ideas tend to help creativity on its way, so rather than ridiculing or rebuking posts we do not instantly agree with, we should welcome them and use them in this way, in as far as this is possible.

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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 04:09 
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I have zero problem with dissent and disagreement. I just think it should be consistent with the known facts and when disagreeing, a person should treat those they are disagreeing with fairly.

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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 06:58 
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Kees wrote:
...Unorthodox ideas help us to keep in mind that what we think we know is almost always a partial truth at the most and reality is a lot more complex and hence bewildering than we would be ready to admit. ... As all opinions are biased in some way, challenging them seems very necessary to me.


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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 07:32 
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Small changes in ball size can translate to huge differences. If you have not hit with the 44mm ball, I suggest you do. Talk about super slow motion! Of course we are not looking at that much of a change in size. The other "change" is the material. How will that play out? I would guess that the current "prototypes" will be altered for 2 reasons: 1. to get the production and Quality Control right and 2. to assure that the balls do not last as long as the old 38mm.

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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 07:39 
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I've tried the 44mm ball. It's completely useless for any type of blocking style with a 6" net. They are supposed to be played with an 8" net and pimples out rubbers (with sponge).

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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 07:44 
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Tassie52 wrote:
As to "original" intentions, the rule is quite clear:
"2.03.01 The ball shall be spherical, with a diameter of 40mm.
2.03.02 The ball shall weigh 2.7g. "

The change to the regulations simply clarifies what that means: 40mm is not less than 40mm.
"The minimum diameter of every ball must be at least 40.00mm and its maximum diameter must not exceed 40.60mm."


If the ITTF is going to sell this change as a clarification of the existing rule, then this clarification is false. The text of the rule does not support this "clarification". "40mm" and "at least 40mm" are different things.

If someone wants to change the rule from "40mm" to "minimum 40mm", then they need to make a proposition to the AGM and get a 3/4 majority, according to the ITTF Constitution. This has not been done, so this "clarification" should be considered illegal and invalid.


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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 07:45 
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44mm ball! :headbang: :headbang: :headbang:

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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 07:46 
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Oh, good post there too Kees! ;)

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PostPosted: 10 Nov 2011, 08:46 
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Smartguy, this rule is for ITTF events only. National associations are under no obligations to accept it. Of course, with a worldwide ban coming due to the dangerous material used in table tennis balls, how could they not accept it?

We all know how good the individual national associations are at vetting rule changes the ITTF slides into universal acceptance via the backdoor. The ITTF knows this too.

It happens over and over.

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