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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 08:22 
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Table tennis supplier Cole Ely posted the following on mytt:

Quote:
Emailed to suppliers from the ITTF:

1. The new POLY balls:

The decision taken is that the new POLY balls will be officially used at ITTF events as of 1 July 2013. After this date the ITTF will NOT use celluloid balls, although they will remain legal for a while, until we officially decide the date to stop them (perhaps 2 years later).

Moreover please be aware that for the period between the 2013 WTTC in Paris and July 2013, the new POLY balls may be used exceptionally, in the case of events starting at the end of June 2013 and/or ending in the beginning of July 2013.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 08:30 
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I sure hope they finished all their testing!

When I interviewed Vladimir Samsonov in September he said he had not tested the new balls yet... I sure the Althletes Commission that he chairs was consulted on this decision and there was considerable support. I will ask him.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 09:05 
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Assuming this message is accuate, and I have no reason to doubt Cole, this message really bugs me. :envy:

The ITTF cannot "stop" the celluloid balls without an official vote. This message tends to imply that the decision has already been made, and it's just a matter of time. This is misleading and manufacturers will obviously stop producing the celluloid balls, as they think a ban is inevitable, whereas in reality no such decision has agreed to and the ITTF have no right to imply that. Once manufacturers stop making the celluloid balls, there will be no need for a vote to ban them, as they simply won't be available.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 10:20 
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As usual, they are like a big government, they are going to do what they want and just don't care. It is not so much "what" they do, it is "How" they do it. They do not seem to be able to just tell the truth with out smoke, mirrors or just plain lies. Like the "ban" on celuloid. Without the "Ban", I see no reason yet to change the ball. Even if the change is a good thing, the ITTF could have just given the reasons for the change, better quality balls, balls last longer, etc.

I was in manufacturing (plastic molding and extrusion) for many years. I know how much new equipment will cost. It is totally new machines that are needed. No modifying old machines. These machines are expensive! I will be very surprized if the cost of balls does not go way up for many years. If they last longer, the manufacturers will raise the cost because of reduced sales also.

I wish the new balls were available now so I could try them and also see if they cycle in robots.


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 11:14 
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hookshot wrote:
I wish the new balls were available now so I could try them and also see if they cycle in robots.


And even if you stock up on celluloid balls now, if the new one's don't recycle in robots, practicing with old balls may become counter-productive if the bounce of new balls is so different.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 11:15 
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haggisv wrote:
and the ITTF have no right to imply that.


I am not surprised. Meanwhile a certain part of them have a long tradition of doing what they have no right to do.


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 13:05 
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The ITTF does't care that this dubious ban creates hardship for 28 TT companies (729, Adidas, Artengo, Butterfly, Champion, Cornilleau, DHS, Donic, Double Fish, Dunlop, Gewo, Giant Dragon, Go Sport, Imperial, Joola, Killerspin, Nimatsu, Nittaku, Peace, Rucanor, Schildkrot, Stag, Stiga, Tibhar, TSP, Xiom, Yasaka and Yashima) who have produced 59 ITTF-approved *** balls. (http://www.ittf.com/stories/Pictures/Balls_04_2011.pdf)

They don't care that this new ball will make millions of balls worldwide pretty much worthless overnight, just like they did to us before a decade ago.

They don't care that this will likely render a large percentage of expensive table tennis robots obsolete.

They don't care that this will disrupt all of our games and likely force many of us to have to waste money on new equipment (again).

All the ITTF cares about is slowing the ball down (again) under the self-serving delusion this will suddenly make their failing pro tour catch on.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 14:15 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
They don't care that this will disrupt all of our games and likely force many of us to have to waste money on new equipment (again).


Let me correct that, my version is:"they are going to disrupt all of our games and likely force many of us to have to waste money on new equipment (again)". Sounds more realistic to me.


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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 15:48 
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Out of the 28 companies that sell table tennis balls, I wonder how many actually have their own factory? I'll bet there are only a few factories and most companies just have the balls private labeled for them. I could be wrong.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 17:43 
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This is quite frustrating..

Honestly, only few issues can be cited in our current celluloid balls. No safety or health issues I have known. Change is good, if it is for the better.. :n:

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 20:50 
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I'm sure the ITTF are not as heartless as you describe. Before they make a major change like this, they would at-least make sure that it did not drastically change how everything works.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 21:11 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
The ITTF does't care that this dubious ban creates hardship for 28 TT companies (729, Adidas, Artengo, Butterfly, Champion, Cornilleau, DHS, Donic, Double Fish, Dunlop, Gewo, Giant Dragon, Go Sport, Imperial, Joola, Killerspin, Nimatsu, Nittaku, Peace, Rucanor, Schildkrot, Stag, Stiga, Tibhar, TSP, Xiom, Yasaka and Yashima) who have produced 59 ITTF-approved *** balls. (http://www.ittf.com/stories/Pictures/Balls_04_2011.pdf)

They don't care that this new ball will make millions of balls worldwide pretty much worthless overnight, just like they did to us before a decade ago.

They don't care that this will likely render a large percentage of expensive table tennis robots obsolete.

They don't care that this will disrupt all of our games and likely force many of us to have to waste money on new equipment (again).

All the ITTF cares about is slowing the ball down (again) under the self-serving delusion this will suddenly make their failing pro tour catch on.

If I were to ask for evidence to back up all your statements here, would you be able to provide anything other than an opinion? "They don't care" is a classic case of mind reading - how do you know "they don't care" other than by your interpretation of their actions?

To this point I have seen absolutely zero evidence to support any of these assertions. For example, what evidence do you have that this is going to render even a single TT robot "obsolete"?

Given that all balls - regardless of composition - will be exactly the same size and weight, and are required to bounce to the same degree, what evidence do you have that these new balls will slow the game down by even a nanosecond? Apart from speculation and hearsay, that is.

And, in the interests of putting my money where my mouth is, I'm sending a copy of these comments to the ITTF asking for a response. I'll let you know if and when I get a reply.

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PostPosted: 02 Dec 2011, 21:15 
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Tassie52 wrote:
And, in the interests of putting my money where my mouth is, I'm sending a copy of these comments to the ITTF asking for a response. I'll let you know if and when I get a reply.

Please ask them for proof of their dubious claim that there will be a worldwide ban on celluloid while you're at it. This is the question they will not answer because we caught them in a lie. Will you still support them after being lied to?

Tassie52 wrote:
If I were to ask for evidence to back up all your statements here, would you be able to provide anything other than an opinion? "They don't care" is a classic case of mind reading - how do you know "they don't care" other than by your interpretation of their actions?

Adham has stated on several occasions that the ITTF doesn't care about recreational players.

Tassie52 wrote:
To this point I have seen absolutely zero evidence to support any of these assertions. For example, what evidence do you have that this is going to render even a single TT robot "obsolete"?

Robots are made for balls less than 40mm, not over 40mm. We'll have to wait until the new balls are on the market to see how many robots will not be compatible. There will be some.

Tassie52 wrote:
Given that all balls - regardless of composition - will be exactly the same size and weight, and are required to bounce to the same degree, what evidence do you have that these new balls will slow the game down by even a nanosecond? Apart from speculation and hearsay, that is.

Larger balls are slower. That is physics and easily provable. Just compare 38mm, 40mm and 44mm balls.

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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2011, 07:07 
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Tassie52 wrote:
If I were to ask for evidence to back up all your statements here, would you be able to provide anything other than an opinion? "They don't care" is a classic case of mind reading - how do you know "they don't care" other than by your interpretation of their actions?

To this point I have seen absolutely zero evidence to support any of these assertions. For example, what evidence do you have that this is going to render even a single TT robot "obsolete"?

Given that all balls - regardless of composition - will be exactly the same size and weight, and are required to bounce to the same degree, what evidence do you have that these new balls will slow the game down by even a nanosecond? Apart from speculation and hearsay, that is.

And, in the interests of putting my money where my mouth is, I'm sending a copy of these comments to the ITTF asking for a response. I'll let you know if and when I get a reply.


As for the "don't care" Sharara has said as much about similar equipment issues. His main concern is professional ITTF sanctioned play. The notion that it isn't their primary concern would probably be a more accurate and less inflammatory way of putting the reality of the situation.

The balls will be the same weight, but will be slightly larger than current balls - though will almost surely still be within the previous allowable size range.

The bounce test is a simple drop test and may not be that good of an indication of how a ball bounces when driven at glancing angles and at higher and lower velocities with different amounts of spin. Since the balls are pretty much guaranteed to be .35mm or more larger in diameter than current balls and of the same weight, it does follow that they will spin a little bit less and slow down in flight a bit more. This follows from fairly simple physics.

It will be interesting to see the response you get. The ITTF has already spread mis-information about celluloid and the hazards of celluloid. Sharara said that cellulose has the same lung hazards as asbestos. Amazing. They also did something odd in prefacing the new rule with the new size parameters as applying to non-celluloid balls only, but the actual rule that was passed doesn't say that. Is that a form of rigging the vote? If they re-word it to match the preface, then they are adding language that wasn't voted on. If they don't re-word the language, then they have deceived their membership by giving a condition on the "ballot" that won't be adhered to. Very odd.

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PostPosted: 03 Dec 2011, 08:29 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Table tennis supplier Cole Ely posted the following on mytt:

Quote:
Emailed to suppliers from the ITTF:

1. The new POLY balls:

The decision taken is that the new POLY balls will be officially used at ITTF events as of 1 July 2013. After this date the ITTF will NOT use celluloid balls, although they will remain legal for a while, until we officially decide the date to stop them (perhaps 2 years later).

Moreover please be aware that for the period between the 2013 WTTC in Paris and July 2013, the new POLY balls may be used exceptionally, in the case of events starting at the end of June 2013 and/or ending in the beginning of July 2013.

So is this letter (info) sent to all suppliers and all manufactourers/National Associations?

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