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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2013, 17:55 
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4.3 The experience of playing Polyball by different types of play
Selecting different types of professional player, including attacking play with double inverted rubber, attacking play with pimple rubber and chop stroke play, to play celluloid ball and Polyball on the spot. Collecting, sorting, categorizing and summarizing the information by distributing questionnaires.
All the selected test players have received or are receiving the professional table tennis ball training, and their sport level reach above second-level, who come from Table tennis ball majors of Tianjin University of Sport, Table tennis ball team of Tianjin Technology University and Tianjin first team of table tennis ball. Both universities won the champion in Tianjin College Table-Tennis Games. All the admitted table tennis ball specialized students are the retired athletes from the table tennis ball team of national provinces. They have higher sport skill and can represent the general table tennis ball level of Tianjin universities. All the Tianjin athletes have attended the different level professional national competitions, representing the highest table tennis ball level in Tianjin. Here is 50 player of total, see the following table.
Table 10
sex sport level
male female first-level second-level
Tianjin University of Sport 7 9 2 14
Tianjin Technology University 9 7 8 8
Tianjin table tennis ball team 10 8 7 11
Total 26 24 17 33
unit “person”
From table 10, we can see the male test players have 26 persons, 52% of the total, female 24, 48% of the total; the athletes of first level have 17, 34% of the total, second lever 33, 66% of the total. 16 students from Tianjin University of Sport take part in the test, male is 7, female 9, of these, 2 reached first levels, the rest did second levels. 16 specialized students from Tianjin Technology University take part in the test, male is 9, female 7, of these, 8 reached first levels, the rest did second levels. 18 current athletes from Tianjin table tennis ball team take part in the test, male is 10, female 8, of these, 7 reached first levels, the rest did second levels.
Questionnaires collect the playing experience of test players from different angles, which include the feelings and the experience to play Polyball separately by the skills of serve, topspin, bottom spin and chopping, the skills have strong representative in table tennis because those are the important skills running throughout the whole game. From observation of playing celluloid ball and Polyball and the questionnaires filled by test player after playing, to compare and analyze the two balls in the ball speed, spin and curve, and find out their differences.
4.3.1 The experience from attacking play with double inverted rubber(the analysis from chart, the following topics are the same)
Summarized the questionnaires filled by the players after playing, the players of attacking play with double inverted rubber have 33 persons, 66% of total, see table 3.
table 3
From table 3, in the 33 players of attacking play with double inverted rubber, the player with right-hand shake-hand grip have 22, 67% of it; Right-hand pen-holding style have 5, 15% of it; Left-hand shake-hand grip 5, 15%; Left-hand pen-holding style 1, 3%.
4.3.1.1 The impact of Polyball on serve ball
29 players mentioned the speed of serve ball have changed during play, 88% of the total. 4 players don’t have such change, 12% of it. 79% player think the speed change can be accepted, reduced the difficulty of first three strokes, the more contest focus on the rallies.
26 players feel the change of the curve from serve during play, 79% of the total. 7 feel nothing, 21% of it. 69% think the ball flying curve is higher when they serve, if they want a lower curve, the habit to hit the ball should be changed, such as direction of force, the range of falling onto table.
All the players feel the ball spin has changed in different extent. 15 feel strongly about the change, 45% of the total. They find serve quality of bottom spin has been cut; 17 think the spin indeed slowing, 52% of the total, they suggest they can still offer a good serve if changing and increasing the fiction area of the ball.
4.3.1.2 The impact of Polyball on topspin
27 players think the ball speed of topspin attacking has changed in different extent during play, 82% of the total. 52% players feel attacking speed has slowed down, 30% feel faster. The main reason is different feet position of everyone causes different hitting point and different feelings for the ball speed.
25 players feel the curve of topspin attacking has changed during play, 76% of the total, 8 players feel no, 24% of the total. 80% players think the curve of topspin is higher and more steady, it can avoid many up-and-down “unexpected ball”.
In all the players, 8 players do not feel the change on spin, 24% of the total, all the others of 76% think the spin of topspin attacking change to be slower. Especially, defender feels much change, the spin of pull topspin become reduced and more easily to control.
4.3.1.3 The impact of Polyball on bottom spin
30 players think the speed of loop has changed during play, 91% of the total. 3 players have no such feeling, 9% of the total. 80% players feel the speed of pull loop become slower, the impact force from accelerated loop has slow down. It has a big effect on the player with less strength.
29 players mention the curve of loop has changed in different extent during play, 88% of the total, 3 players have no such feeling, 12% of the total. 59% players feel the curve of their pull loop become higher, and the flying curve is quite smooth, the only bad feeling is the drive quality reduced because the opponent can receive and return it easily.
31 players think the spin of loop has changed during play, 94% of the total, 2 players have no such feeling, 6% of the total. 94% players feel the spin of bottom spin become weak in a great extent, even to increase the friction on purpose to pull high loop, defenders still feel the spin is less than before; they mention the spin from push also has reduced down. The players who are good at push and spin feel very helpless on it.
More than half of the players with inverted rubber think the advent of Polyball will have some certain impacts on them, this mainly reflects in the control of their serve, drive and sophisticated style. The biggest difference is the forward impact force of Polyball becomes obviously weak, the ball from loop drive is always get higher but not far, the quality of the ball shot has been cut. But it is a two-way impact, you can take a dominant position as long as finding out the rule and dealing with it actively.
4.3.2 The experience from attacking play with pimple rubber
Summarized the questionnaires filled by the players after playing, the players of attacking play with pimple rubber have 11 persons, 22% of total.
The classification of attacking play with pimple rubber
the
proportion
of players right-hand right-hand right-hand right-hand left-hand left-hand
shake-hand shake-hand pen-holding pen-holding shake-hand shake-hand
grip / pimple grip / pimple grip / pimple grip / long grip / pimple grip / pimple
out rubber out(Special)rubber out rubber pimple rubber out rubber out(Special)rubber
2 4 2 1 1 1
18% 36% 18% 9% 9% 9%
From the above table, in the 11 players of attacking play with pimple rubber, the players with right-hand shake-hand grip of pimple-out rubber have 2, 18% of it; right-hand shake-hand grip of pimple-out (Special) rubber have 4, 36% of it; right-hand pen-holding grip of pimple-out rubber have 2, 18% of it; right-hand pen-holding grip of long pimple rubber have 1, 9% of it; left-hand shake-hand grip of pimple-out rubber have 1, 9%; left-hand shake-hand grip of pimple-out (Special) rubber have 1, 9%.
4.3.2.1 The impact of Polyball on serve ball
8 players feel the speed of serve ball become slow in different extent during play. 73% of the total, 3 players don’t feel the change, 27% of the total. 6 players feel slower, 2 players feel slow, 73% of the total, they think the kinds of ball impact their speed of serve ball indeed. By contrast, they feel serve speed from the opponent become slow and easy to judge it when they receive the serve.
9 players think the ball curve from serve has changed in different extent during play, 82% of the total, 2 players have no such feeling, 18% of the total.7 players feel the curve become higher, 78% of the total, 2 players feel become lower, 22% of the total, personal experience has a close connexion with attacking habit and has a strong subjective undersanding.
All the players of attacking play with pimple rubber emphasize that the ball spin from serve has changed during play. 10 players feel it become weaker, 22% of the total, the rest of 9% feel weak, and express it is true that the spin from serve is affected by Polyball and think the ball is easy to slip and can not be controlled completely at the moment of friction.
4.3.2.2 The impact of Polyball on topspin
8 players think the ball speed of topspin has changed during play, 73% of the total. 3 players have no such feeling, 27% of the total. 6 of them feel attacking speed has slowed down, 2 feel faster. Most of them express it is benefit to their play. At the same time, the player with pimple out rubber mentioned that fast is their own character, the reduced speed will cause some effect on them.
10 players mention the curve of topspin has changed during play, 91% of the total, 1 player feel no, 9% of the total. 6 of them think the ball curve of attacking is higher 4 of them feel it is lower. The player with long pimple rubber mentioned the ball hitting back is not heavy and have not prominent character, she thinks the advent of the new ball does more harm than good to her.
10 players feel the spin of topspin has changed during play, 91% of the total, 1 player feel no, 9% of the total. For the player with pimple rubber playing, the change of spin directly affects the feelings in the hand when player touch the ball. Most of them express the reduced spin is benefit to stability of defense.
4.3.2.3 The impact of Polyball on bottom spin
9 players think the speed of bottom spin drive has changed during play, 82% of the total. 2 players have no such feeling, 18% of the total. 7 of them feel the speed become slower, 1 feels fast. The player with pimple rubber playing generally expresses the reduced speed is benefit to find out reasonable attacking point and take forehand shock and backhand stroke, hit rate will be improved.
5 players mention the curve of bottom spin drive has changed during play, 45% of the total, 6 players have no such feeling, 5% of the total. 3 of them feel it becomes higher, 2 feel lower. It shows the impact that Polyball causes the curve change for the player with pimple rubber playing is not obvious, it will disappear when player become more and more used to Polyball.
10 players feel the spin of playing bottom spin become weak during play, 91% of the total, 1 player has no such feeling, 9% of the total. The feature of pimple rubber is uneasy to make a mistake on receiving spinning ball, especially on bottom spin, so the reduced spin will help the player with pimple rubber playing more control over the ball from opponent. But it is not easy to control the ball when push, drop shot, jump high and push without spin will occur.
The players with pimple rubber playing generally agree that the curve of Polyball is steady, ball bounce higher but not go forward, quite complying with the play of short court with “more impact less friction”. For pimple rubber playing, the biggest weakness is baseline long shot, the new ball spin become weak and speed slow, the flying curve is higher, the forward impact force after dropping on table is lower, reduce the threats from baseline long shot, the hit rate will be boosted.
4.3.3 The experience from chop stroke defensive play
Summarized the questionnaires filled by the players after playing, the players of chop stroke defensive play have 6 persons, 12% of total.
The classification of defensive play
the
proportion
of players Right hand with pimple out (Special) rubber Right hand with long pimple rubber Right hand with pimple out rubber Left hand with pimple out rubber
2 2 1 1
33% 33% 17% 17%
Unit: person
From the above table, the players with right-hand grip with pimple out (Special) rubber have 2, 33% of them; right-hand grip with long pimple rubber have 2, 33% of them; right-hand grip with pimple out rubber have 1, 17% of them; left-hand grip with pimple out rubber have 1, 17% of them.
4.3.3.1 The impact of Polyball on serve ball
All the chop players feel the speed of serve ball have changed during play, 1 of them feels faster, 17% of the total, 5 players feel slower, 83% of it. Most of players express it is a two-way impact, the reduced speed from serve can make them a breakthrough in the control of the service reception.
All the chop players mention the curve of serve ball has changed during play, one of them feel the curve is high, 17% of the total, 3 players feel higher, 50% of the total. 2 players feel slower, 33% of the total. Everyone’s understanding on curve is difference, it is certain that the impact of Polyball on the curve from serve is not absolute.
All the chop players mention the spin from serve ball become reduced during play, which shows Polyball has impact on the spin from serve, but the impact works for all play, it needs player to improve their skill on attacking rules for the new ball.
4.3.3.2 The impact of Polyball on topspin
5 chop players think the ball speed of topspin has changed in different extent during play, 83% of the total, one player feels no. One of them feels faster, 3 feel slower, one feels slow. Many players think the reduced speed is benefit on counterattack and continuous attack after counterattack.
5 chop players feel the ball curve of topspin has changed during play, 83% of the total, one player feels no. One of them feels high, 3 feel higher, 2 feel lower. Most of them think proper control on attacking time and feet point can overcome the change.
3 chop players think the ball spin of topspin become a little bit of weak during play, 50% of the total, 3 players feels no. It shows chop player has no sensitive to the spin change from topspin, not as much as the play with double inverted rubber and with pimple rubber.
4.3.3.3 The impact of Polyball on bottom spin
6 chop players mention the speed of bottom spin drive has changed during play. Since chop play is often used in defensive, the reduced speed means they have more time to find the right position and to control, all players think the change will benefit to improve defensive play.
2 chop players feel the ball curve of bottom spin become high during play, 33% of the total, other 4 players have no such feeling. It shows from the point of view of defensive play, curve change either up or down has not great impact on their play. Flying curve can be controlled as long as paying more attention on it.
6 chop players feel the spin of bottom spin has changed during play, two of them think it is strong than before, 33% of the total, 4 players feel it’s weak, 33% of the total. After thorough understanding, the 2 players who feel spin becomes strong express they can do more strong spin if they want, that is to say, the spin is stronger than before when they offer to increase spin.
4.3.3.4 The impact of Polyball on chop play
4 chop players think the ball speed of chop become slow during play, 67% of the total, 4 players have no such feeling. The change is very beneficial to defender, chop stroke is often used at middle and back court, the range of movement become relatively wider, the reduced speed enable them to have time to control their place, and benefit them to better play to their advantages.
5 chop players mention the ball curve of chop has changed during play, 83% of the total, 1 player has no such feeling. One of them feels the curve is high, 2 feel higher, 2 feel lower. By asking them to know the 2 players who feel the curve is lower express that Polyball is easy to be controlled during chop, the curve from chop is very lower and steady.
5 chop players feel the ball spin of chop has changed during play, 83% of the total, 1 player has no such feeling. 2 of them feel the spin is stronger, 3 feel weaker. Although they have different feelings after play Polyball, all the players express that drive quality from opponent, whether the ball speed or spin, has variously decrease, chop quality has improved, the spin change from Polyball doesn’t impact their control on spin. The drawback is harder to play a short ball, the ball bounce is high when dropping on table, forward impact force become weak, so-called “get higher but not far”, therefore, do not stand far away from table when chop, to ensure player can be in time for positioning while opponent suddenly defend short ball.
5 Conclusion
5.1 Conclusion
5.1.1 Polyball use new synthetic plastic with non-toxic, harmless, safety, environmental protection and other benefits, clearly better than the ball made of celluloid, full compliance with ITTF requirements to innovate the material of table tennis ball, promote table tennis ball movement toward a scientific and balanced direction.
5.1.2 Polyball use seamless integral forming process, make a breakthrough to solve the substantial problem of seam on celluloid ball, and make table tennis ball into one unit in the true sense of the word.
5.1.3 Every physical index and appearance quality of Polyball are better than of celluloid, it is more close to the ideal competition ball.
5.1.4 The players generally think the feeling of Polyball is better than of celluloid ball after play. Its bounce is more conformity and avoid unexpected ball in a large degree, and reduce some unnecessary mistakes.
5.1.5 The reduced speed and spin of Polyball, on one hand, help the development of chop defensive play and pimple play, on the other hand, causes certain impact to the player of attacking play with double reverted rubber and the more competition focus on stalemate.
5.1.6 The bounce of Polyball is conformity, the curve is steady, the difficulty of playing ball become lower, increase rallies, greatly improve enjoyment and help the development of table tennis ball.

------from China Tianjin University of Sport, Zhang Mingyin, Master's Thesis,


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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2013, 19:35 
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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2013, 22:19 
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I like this, now I can spend a few days trying to analyze what I am reading....thanks for providing it.
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PostPosted: 14 Jun 2013, 23:12 
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Do they mention what brand of polyball they used? I don't see that in the article.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 01:44 
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Lorre wrote:
Do they mention what brand of polyball they used? I don't see that in the article.


I'm assuming Palio as OP has posted about Palio before.

And.. I don't get the percentages here throughout the post. Is my math wrong?

Example.

There are 50 players in total.

Quote:
29 players mentioned the speed of serve ball have changed during play, 88% of the total.


Shouldn't that be 58%?

and

Quote:
17 think the spin indeed slowing, 52% of the total, they suggest they can still offer a good serve if changing and increasing the fiction area of the ball.


Shouldn't that be 34%?


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 02:22 
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j-bo wrote:
Lorre wrote:
Do they mention what brand of polyball they used? I don't see that in the article.


I'm assuming Palio as OP has posted about Palio before.

And.. I don't get the percentages here throughout the post. Is my math wrong?

Example.

There are 50 players in total.

Quote:
29 players mentioned the speed of serve ball have changed during play, 88% of the total.


Shouldn't that be 58%?

and

Quote:
17 think the spin indeed slowing, 52% of the total, they suggest they can still offer a good serve if changing and increasing the fiction area of the ball.


Shouldn't that be 34%?


Thx, j-bo. There are 50 people in total, but the study divides those people into three categories: attacking play (double inverted), attacking play (pips play) and defensive play.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 02:41 
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Fashion ball hf wrote:
5 Conclusion
5.1 Conclusion
5.1.1 Polyball use new synthetic plastic with non-toxic, harmless, safety, environmental protection and other benefits, clearly better than the ball made of celluloid, full compliance with ITTF requirements to innovate the material of table tennis ball, promote table tennis ball movement toward a scientific and balanced direction.
5.1.2 Polyball use seamless integral forming process, make a breakthrough to solve the substantial problem of seam on celluloid ball, and make table tennis ball into one unit in the true sense of the word.
5.1.3 Every physical index and appearance quality of Polyball are better than of celluloid, it is more close to the ideal competition ball.
5.1.4 The players generally think the feeling of Polyball is better than of celluloid ball after play. Its bounce is more conformity and avoid unexpected ball in a large degree, and reduce some unnecessary mistakes.
5.1.5 The reduced speed and spin of Polyball, on one hand, help the development of chop defensive play and pimple play, on the other hand, causes certain impact to the player of attacking play with double reverted rubber and the more competition focus on stalemate.
5.1.6 The bounce of Polyball is conformity, the curve is steady, the difficulty of playing ball become lower, increase rallies, greatly improve enjoyment and help the development of table tennis ball.

------from China Tianjin University of Sport, Zhang Mingyin, Master's Thesis,


The conclusions seem significantly biased - especially 5.1.1. I didn't see the support for that. But maybe it was in earlier sections. If the ball hadn't slowed down so much, they might be reasonable. OTOH, maybe something was lost in translation.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 03:10 
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wturber wrote:
The conclusions seem significantly biased - especially 5.1.1. I didn't see the support for that. But maybe it was in earlier sections. If the ball hadn't slowed down so much, they might be reasonable. OTOH, maybe something was lost in translation.


The writer may just be a shill for Palio or ITTF. ;)


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roundrobin wrote:
wturber wrote:
The conclusions seem significantly biased - especially 5.1.1. I didn't see the support for that. But maybe it was in earlier sections. If the ball hadn't slowed down so much, they might be reasonable. OTOH, maybe something was lost in translation.


The writer may just be a shill for Palio or ITTF. ;)


I wouldn't go that far. Probably simply a University student who understands politics.

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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 04:01 
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roundrobin wrote:
wturber wrote:
The conclusions seem significantly biased - especially 5.1.1. I didn't see the support for that. But maybe it was in earlier sections. If the ball hadn't slowed down so much, they might be reasonable. OTOH, maybe something was lost in translation.


The writer may just be a shill for Palio or ITTF. ;)


BTW, as you said some time ago, this is all a done deal. Probably the best we can hope for is that someone will make a 40.05mm ball that is seamless and on the heavy side of the weight tolerances. Such a ball would play closer to what we currently have than the balls being tested.

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The conclusions in section 5 are rubbish, seemingly written by a different author with a blatant agenda.

The stats in the middle of the report, however, seem to indicate that the polyball will benefit pips-out players and defensive players by slowing the game and (by some accounts) producing more spin on chops.

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nathanso wrote:
The conclusions in section 5 are rubbish, seemingly written by a different author with a blatant agenda.

The stats in the middle of the report, however, seem to indicate that the polyball will benefit pips-out players and defensive players by slowing the game and (by some accounts) producing more spin on chops.


I firmly believe this new ball will benefit those who can hit the ball hardest with most spin, as the slower ball will eliminate any speed advantage of pips out rubbers. In equally powerful exchanges, those who can vary the spin more effectively will always have the edge... It simply means that Ma Long and Xu Xin types with double inverted rubbers will become even more dominant.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 05:51 
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wturber wrote:
roundrobin wrote:
wturber wrote:
The conclusions seem significantly biased - especially 5.1.1. I didn't see the support for that. But maybe it was in earlier sections. If the ball hadn't slowed down so much, they might be reasonable. OTOH, maybe something was lost in translation.


The writer may just be a shill for Palio or ITTF. ;)


I wouldn't go that far. Probably simply a University student who understands politics.


I WOULD. Reads like a Palio person has been writing the posts. Could be wrong.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 05:59 
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roundrobin wrote:
nathanso wrote:
The conclusions in section 5 are rubbish, seemingly written by a different author with a blatant agenda.

The stats in the middle of the report, however, seem to indicate that the polyball will benefit pips-out players and defensive players by slowing the game and (by some accounts) producing more spin on chops.


I firmly believe this new ball will benefit those who can hit the ball hardest with most spin, as the slower ball will eliminate any speed advantage of pips out rubbers. In equally powerful exchanges, those who can vary the spin more effectively will always have the edge... It simply means that Ma Long and Xu Xin types with double inverted rubbers will become even more dominant.



This is one reason I'm thinking of going to a harder/faster blade now. Although... I'm still considering buying a ton of celluloid balls and having my club and those that want to play with the "real" ball, can do so for quite a few years.

I can see a BIG drop in USATT if they adopt the plastic ball... and it proves out to suck for most players.


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PostPosted: 15 Jun 2013, 06:23 
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j-bo wrote:

This is one reason I'm thinking of going to a harder/faster blade now. Although... I'm still considering buying a ton of celluloid balls and having my club and those that want to play with the "real" ball, can do so for quite a few years.

I can see a BIG drop in USATT if they adopt the plastic ball... and it proves out to suck for most players.


Yep. A faster blade would help compensate a bit but is not a full solution.

Likewise, at 40.2mm if a manufacturer made a ball at 3.0 grams, it should have a similar speed through the air as our current ball. I think a truly enterprising company might choose to make a ball as close to the tolerances as possible. If they could make a ball that was 40.05 mm in diameter and made it as heavy as 2.76 grams, they would be barely within ITTF specs and have a ball that wasn't hugely different for speed through the air. If they just went ahead and made the ball 2.8 grams and 40.05mm, it would be very close to the current ball in flight speed.

Of course, with all of these larger balls, spin is sacrificed due to the higher moments of intertia. There's no compensating for that difference.

We can certainly cross our fingers and hope that some enterprising ball company endeavors to make a new ball that is as small and heavy as is practical within the revised tolerances.

BTW, no surprise that the USATT will simply copy the ITTF. That's their general practice. They've been testing rackets for VOCs for some time - even though there is no USATT rule that makes having VOCs in your racket illegal.

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