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 Post subject: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 04:33 
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Is betting or gambling a big issue?
Will anybody that plays in ITTF events have to "ask" for permission to play a non-ITTF event now?
Is there some reason for this other than more control?
If there was betting at a non-ITTF event, how would that affect the ITTF?
I, personally have not heard anything about betting in table tennis until now.
Do other sports do this?

Below is an excerption from Mr. Adham Sharara's opening speach at the WC'2011 in Rotterdam.
For any further explanations do approach Mr. Sharara in person.


One of the very serious and hot issues these days is the Online Illegal Betting issue. This is high on the agenda of the IOC, and has been a serious worry to the ITTF over the past year.
The Board of Directors wisely passed
new regulations giving to the the national associations and to the ITTF the power to withhold permission to players to participate in non-ITTF events. This is necessary in order to ensure that the ITTF and its member associations are not caught unaware condoning the participation of players in events with illegal betting, or any other illegal activity for that matter.
In order to protect the integrity of the ITTF we have decided to use the services of the“International Monitoring Service” (IMS) company, which is also used by the IOC and FIFA. The first monitoring for illegal online betting took place at the 2011 German Open, and this will be a regular activity of the ITTF, but at a
very high cost.
The ITTF will also become a member of the of the European Sport Security Association (ESSA), which offers “Early Detection” monitoring for the ITTF.
This means that the streaming of events must be certified by the ITTF to ensure that the organizers are following the necessary conditions for the detection of illegal betting. The
streaming partners of the ITTF have accepted to stream online only ITTF certified events. The ITTF will follow very closely the lead of the IOC in this very serious matter.


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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 05:12 
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A convenient excuse to ban players from participating in big money tourneys in places like Vegas. Also possibly the kind of tough anti-gambling talk the IOC wants.

At the same time, if the ITTF is really so concerned about being associated with gambling, why do they have a relationship with bwin.com, to whom they supply a live stream of all ITTF events for real-time bets with dynamic odds on ITTF competition?

https://www.bwin.com/live-streaming/ittf-live

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 08:26 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
A convenient excuse to ban players from participating in big money tourneys in places like Vegas.

This thread is a convenient excuse to accuse the ITTF of underhanded treatment of players.
mynamenotbob wrote:
Also possibly the kind of tough anti-gambling talk the IOC wants.

Golly gosh, we've already agreed that we want TT to remain an Olympic sport, so well done ITTF for keeping us in line with our partners.
mynamenotbob wrote:
At the same time, if the ITTF is really so concerned about being associated with gambling, why do they have a relationship with bwin.com, to whom they supply a live stream of all ITTF events for real-time bets with dynamic odds on ITTF competition?

I think that you have conveniently misread Sharara's comments. He is not "concerned about being associated with gambling"; he is concerned about illegal gambling. And this is where I would part company with Sharara: I am personally concerned about the harmful effects of gambling - both illegal and legal. If it was my call, I would have nothing to do with any betting organisation. As I've mentioned elsewhere, my football team is sponsored by a betting agency and I protest whenever I can. But (and it is a big "but") many, many people don't share my ethical concerns about gambling and therefore are not bothered by gambling sponsorship. To those people, Sharara's comments are not hypocritical at all: anti illegal gambling, pro legal gambling.

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 08:31 
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Tassie52 wrote:
This thread is a convenient excuse to accuse the ITTF of underhanded treatment of players.

So you think it's good that notoriously low-paid professional table tennis players are barred from participating in big money events like the "World Championships of Ping Pong?"

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 08:38 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Tassie52 wrote:
This thread is a convenient excuse to accuse the ITTF of underhanded treatment of players.

So you think it's good that notoriously low-paid professional table tennis players are barred from participating in big money events like the "World Championships of Ping Pong?"

Out of interest, is that classed as "restriction of trade"?


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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 08:40 
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Tassie52 wrote:
concerned about illegal gambling. And this is where I would part company with Sharara: I am personally concerned about the harmful effects of gambling - both illegal and legal. If it was my call, I would have nothing to do with any betting organisation. As I've mentioned elsewhere, my football team is sponsored by a betting agency and I protest whenever I can. But (and it is a big "but") many, many people don't share my ethical concerns about gambling and therefore are not bothered by gambling sponsorship. To those people, Sharara's comments are not hypocritical at all: anti illegal gambling, pro legal gambling.

Interesting distinction between legal and illegal gambling Tassie52 :up:

It made me wonder, of exactly what is the difference between legal and illegal gambling... when does it become illegal?

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 09:18 
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I think gambling, legal or not, always opens the door to trouble. Payoffs, throwing games, etc. I find it incredible the ITTF makes a distinction between legal and not legal gambling. Any link to gambling reflects on the ITTF in my book.


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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 09:37 
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haggisv wrote:
Tassie52 wrote:
concerned about illegal gambling. And this is where I would part company with Sharara: I am personally concerned about the harmful effects of gambling - both illegal and legal. If it was my call, I would have nothing to do with any betting organisation. As I've mentioned elsewhere, my football team is sponsored by a betting agency and I protest whenever I can. But (and it is a big "but") many, many people don't share my ethical concerns about gambling and therefore are not bothered by gambling sponsorship. To those people, Sharara's comments are not hypocritical at all: anti illegal gambling, pro legal gambling.

Interesting distinction between legal and illegal gambling Tassie52 :up:

It made me wonder, of exactly what is the difference between legal and illegal gambling... when does it become illegal?


Having lived in Las Vegas for five years, as I understand the chief distinction is legal gambling is the one that can be taxed by the authorities, but not illegal gambling. Morality does not come into play when it comes to regulating gambling...
Only money.


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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 15:59 
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Here is an intersting article about illegal gambling, particularly in Asia:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-pacific-10671400

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 16:22 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
Tassie52 wrote:
This thread is a convenient excuse to accuse the ITTF of underhanded treatment of players.

So you think it's good that notoriously low-paid professional table tennis players are barred from participating in big money events like the "World Championships of Ping Pong?"

No, I haven't anywhere suggested that "low-paid professional table tennis players" should be excluded from participating in events where they can earn some money. Participation in something like the WCPP is another issue, with many factors which would influence the decision-makers. One of those factors appears to be looking after the interests of ITTF registered players. We need to note that players are registered with the governing body and that gives those players both rights and responsibilities. Among their rights would be an expectation that the ITTF would intervene if there was a risk of players getting caught in something which was illegal. Among players' responsibilities is to accept that the governing body does have powers to determine what the parameters are for participating outside of ITTF events. [Football players registered with FIFA are subject to FIFA regulations, swimmers registered with FINA are subject to FINA regulations, etc.]

My original point was that the excerpt from Sharara's speech was about illegal gambling, nothing to do with "barring" anyone from big money tournaments.

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 17:41 
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What a crock.

You can't control illegal gambling, they can bet on the matches wheter you like it or not; be it an official ITTF match or not.

You only need to look at cricket with allegations of bowling of no-balls, match fixing in offical matches and football with betting on the ime of the first throw in or whatever.

It's nothing more than an excuse and I'm very interested to see if it's a restraint of trade.

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 17:47 
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There was recently allegations made in various forums that a well known player threw a game at the recent WTTC in Rotterdam. And that was one of the streamed games people could bet on at bwin.com.

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 18:22 
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Tassie52 wrote:
No, I haven't anywhere suggested that "low-paid professional table tennis players" should be excluded from participating in events where they can earn some money.


Sharara's comment was: The Board of Directors wisely passed new regulations giving to the the national associations and to the ITTF the power to withhold permission to players to participate in non-ITTF events. This is necessary in order to ensure that the ITTF and its member associations are not caught unaware condoning the participation of players in events with illegal betting, or any other illegal activity for that matter.

There is a thinly veiled implication here that non-ITTF events are involved with illegal gambling and the ITTF "wisely" passed a rule to protect players from associating with criminals.

This conveniently gives them "a reason" to stop players from playing in events of rival table tennis organizations, just another one of their false arguments to camouflage their true intent.

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 21:20 
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There is only one solution to this.......OOAKforum headed by haggisv, start up an international superleague. The event would be played in India annually and be sponsored by companies that have no interest in gambling, smoking or any other non-forum approved commodity. Forum members only are allowed to compete and all involved would be required to wear coloured uniforms and have silly names such as Henzell's Hero's, Cobalt's Clan or Bob's Bombers. The TV broadcasters that will be lining up to broadcast the event will have 50% of their fee go to player payments and 50% toward development of the game.........distributed per a poll done by OOAKforum members. A player fee will be split evenly with the winning team, runner up and semi-finalists of the 8 team tournament getting additional earnings.

Surely I'm onto a winner, now its just up to the nominated chairperson, haggisv, to arrange teams, get some TV rights and away we go.

Who's in ?

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 Post subject: Re: More control
PostPosted: 20 May 2011, 23:09 
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I'm in! I "BET" that would work! :rofl:

I also see the real reason is to control ITTF players. It is a smoke screen. Even at ITTF controled events, nothing stops illegal betting anymore than non-ITTF events. Horse racing is a good example.


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