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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2023, 04:27 
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ZApenholder wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
World rankings, I think, serve a fundamentally different purpose than the USATT ratings do. World rankings reward participation in tournaments, and rank active players, not only in how strong they are in comparison to other players, but also how much they compete. I'm not really sure how the points they are based on are calculated, I suspect the tournaments themselves are ranked in terms of importance, and you get points for advancing to specific rounds (to do so, of course, you must win games) - I don't know if it is based on WHO you beat on the way. The USATT ratings, on the other hand, are a measure of how good you are compared to other players you compete against, so that they can put you in classes where you can be competitive. The ratings points don't expire - you can actually stop competing for years, when you come back they'll use the rating you used to have to allow you to enter ratings categories (they'll probably adjust you up if you end up beating a lot of players above your old rating).

Iskandar


Rating is your level is it doesn't expire.

Ranking points is your accumulated points from tournaments, but it has an expire date, and yes, higher end tournament has higher points, ie OG gold is 1000 points, while winning a WTT feeder is 125 points. With the current system, it doesn't matter who you beat or loss, but where you finish in the tournament.

Why they ask about your ITTF points in Germany is so they can have an idea on your level. So say, you are WR100~300, they will know more or less where you will be positioned.


Thanks Tony, now I have clear about it. My next question would be, how to know then your rating?

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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2023, 04:28 
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iskandar taib wrote:
I suppose you'd have to be an elite player to be able to enter these tournaments where you can earn ITTF points. I wonder how the lower ranked players who aren't of this level get evaluated. In the US it's easy, everyone who attends USATT tournaments (there are a lot of them) gets a rating.

Iskandar


But this is just in USA, right?

Sorry for the big amount of question, all of this is new for me.

Thanks for your patience

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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2023, 21:19 
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Diegox wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
I suppose you'd have to be an elite player to be able to enter these tournaments where you can earn ITTF points. I wonder how the lower ranked players who aren't of this level get evaluated. In the US it's easy, everyone who attends USATT tournaments (there are a lot of them) gets a rating.

Iskandar


But this is just in USA, right?

Sorry for the big amount of question, all of this is new for me.

Thanks for your patience


Yes and no. There is (or was - I haven't kept up) an online based rating system that's been going on for a while (IIRC it was called "Ratings Central").. several people who post here have ratings on it. I'm not exactly sure how it works - it's apparently been adopted for use in some countries, who find it useful for the same reasons the USATT uses a ratings system. There are two problems, though. The first is, maintaining a ratings system is a lot of work - someone has to tabulate all the results in a tournament into the software. So for it to work in any particular country, some sort of mechanism must exist where this is formalized - tournament organizers have to forward their results to some person who's in charge of entering the data. Over time, this can break down if it isn't backed by a national organization. The second problem is - when you have pools of players who don't play against each other (as you do when the players live in different countries and only participate in tournaments in that country), the ratings for each of these pools will begin to diverge from each other. So someone rated 1200 in, say, Eastern Europe (I assume people would cross borders to play against each other within Eastern Europe) would be equivalent to, say, a 1400 player in Australia, and this would be equivalent to, say, a 1800 player in the USATT system. Trying to get all the regions synchronized (you'd have to rely on the odd person who, say, goes to Australia on holiday and plays in a tournament there) would mean periodically shifting everyone's rating by large amounts, which might upset some people. In the US, you have large, regional tournaments, as well as two large National events, in which people from many states participate. In addition, you have events where men and women play against each other, so the men's and women's ratings are all within the same system. Even so, there has been talk about "ratings islands", where the ratings of players in some large cities are "off" because the players tend not to attend tournaments outside the city.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 27 Dec 2023, 23:31 
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Fantastic explanation. Thank you for taking the time to write and summarised all this knowledge. It is so interesting, and from this explanation I can get that this world ranking has more sense in general. At least this is my impression.

Thanks

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PostPosted: 28 Dec 2023, 17:33 
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Diegox wrote:
iskandar taib wrote:
I suppose you'd have to be an elite player to be able to enter these tournaments where you can earn ITTF points. I wonder how the lower ranked players who aren't of this level get evaluated. In the US it's easy, everyone who attends USATT tournaments (there are a lot of them) gets a rating.

Iskandar


But this is just in USA, right?

Sorry for the big amount of question, all of this is new for me.

Thanks for your patience

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You need to take part in rating tournaments to be able to gather your rating (in numbers).
There is some theory about, guessing your rating, but true rating is after you play many matches and have wins/losses and the data collected would give you a rating.

IE, in USATT, the junior boys champion is around 2500 to 2600 level.
But in Taiwan, none national team members can beat 25xx level players, so I'm guessing that there will be a handful of players that can just walk into the USA national junior boys team.
But of course, when they play matches, the results might not always be that consistent

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PostPosted: 29 Dec 2023, 05:56 
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This is that I thought with the last explanation in the line, that is difficult to have an objetive score or number that can be really valid between countries. Maybe the international ranking is trying to do that. At least I guess so.

Thank you for answering.

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