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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 00:23 
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King of Ping!

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I have been invited by this Forum to join periodically and answer questions posed by Forum members.

I am delighted to do this, but will only be able to visit occasionally due to a very heavy schedule, so some questions may take a long time to answer, I hope you will be patient.

Thank you for the invitation.

Adham

EDIT (admin): As requested by Adham, please post any question you have specifically for Adham, in this thread.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 02:42 
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Hi Adham,
I am sure you recognize me by now,,,LOL. I do have some questions for you. Thank you for taking the time to come here.

Banning VOCs was understandable to me. But, why ban the tuners that have no VOC.s? Or at least very low levels.
Why not set a lower limit to VOC's like is done on MSDS forms for chemicals, a limit deemed safe by the government?
The 4mm limit would make a barrier to excessive tuning. Only thin sponges could be tuned without going over the limit. It would be much easeir than making super sensitive equipment to detect microscopic amounts of VOC's that are not a real danger.
Your rules say NO stretching the top sheet. Must be as tested. Are not "Tensors" a way of streching the topsheet? If so, why can manufacturers do it and we can not? Will you ban tensors now causing a huge loss to manufacturers and players alike?
Please give a REASON for the frictionless ban. They were not dominating the world level. I did not use them. I enjoyed playing against them. One more facit to the game. Please,,,a REASON.
What happens at a 1 star or 2 star tourney now where they have no Enez? If some bats "click", now what? Some of the new "tensors" click. We cannot just ignore the ITTF rules. USATT rules are tied to them.

I would have suggested two tests to simplify things. If a bat passes the Enez and the rubber meets the 4mm rule, good to go. The Enez insures safety, the 4mm rule puts a limit on tuning.

Thank you for coming here. :D

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 03:55 
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Devil may cry
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Welcome to OOAK Adham!

You will find its a great forum with alot of pimple and anti users.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 03:58 
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welcome adham, its nice to see you here. i look forward to seeing some nice converstions from you and see what you

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 04:13 
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Hi Adham - great to have somebody in your position here and look forward with interest to reading your input on various topics close to my heart.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 04:59 
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Welcome to the forum Adam. Just one question about glossiness on top sheet. New Tensor rubbers like Andro Roxon that I use and others have wery glossy top sheet how will testing for glossiness afect them? I hope we wont need to make another change as it afect's our game as well our pocket. Thank you

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 05:11 
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Devil may cry
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I think it will not affect you as the sheet of rubber is brand new,
I have my 815 double fish thats about 1 and half years old, its pull plays well and is so tacky the balls stays on for more than 30seconds, even when I try shaking it off, the shine of it though is crazy and can probably also be used as a mirror, im sure this would not pass

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 06:23 
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adham wrote:
I have been invited by this Forum to join periodically and answer questions posed by Forum members.

I am delighted to do this, but will only be able to visit occasionally due to a very heavy schedule, so some questions may take a long time to answer, I hope you will be patient.

Thank you for the invitation.

Adham


I'd also like to give you a warm welcome adham, and really appreciate any time you can spend here, discussion issues.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 06:57 
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Any Which Way You Can
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WELCOME :!: :D

Cheers.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 09:10 
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A warm welcome. I am happy that you will occasionally stop by to hear the concerns of grassroots players -- including some occasional criticism of ITTF decisions. Know for a fact that we all love this game and want it to be better.

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PostPosted: 05 Nov 2008, 11:43 
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Count Darkula
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And a warm welcome from me also Adham. This forum is very colorful and very passionate. I am sure you will find your time here very interesting and informative. I hope we are able to share our views with you in a way that is for the benefit of all table tennis players. :wink:

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S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 12 Nov 2008, 05:30 
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Your presence here will add to the variety, Adham, and since variety - as everyone in this world today must be aware - is a conditio sine qua non for survival of a species, your presence will also increase the odds that this Forum will live to see another day. That is fortunate indeed. Wouldn't it be nice if the same were true of table tennis under the rule of the ITTF? I would like you very much to give some serious thought to the possibility that diminishing variety - i. e. banning certain kinds of equipment - for other reasons than real health risks to players is unwise. Even if regulations are installed with the objective to make play fair for all players, there is always another side. For instance, after John Hilton won his title, the two-colour rule was installed; it was said this was necessary to prevent deception, but it also prevented players from finding ways to deal with this problem themselves: new techniques, new tactics, new equipment. Excluding frictionless rubbers achieves the same feat. It takes away opportunities. To a certain degree, it bannes creativity and intelligence. That is always a dangerous path to choose, as history has shown many times.

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PostPosted: 14 Nov 2008, 01:21 
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Count Darkula
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You make a very good point Kees! :wink:

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S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2008, 12:05 
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King of Ping!

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speedplay wrote:
You, as any other new member, is greeted with a warm welcome!

look forward to read your posts and remember, this is the long pips forum number 1, so if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask :wink:

I do hope that our members, while they might not agree with you, will act mature and put forward their views on the game, the rules/rule-changes etc etc with out lowering them self to personal attacks. I think this is the forum were this actually can happen. Still, be prepared for a rough ride as we have a huge crowd of former frictionless users along with speed gluers.


Ok, I am warned, and I am ready.

Adham

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PostPosted: 17 Nov 2008, 12:24 
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King of Ping!

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hookshot wrote:
Hi Adham,
I am sure you recognize me by now,,,LOL. I do have some questions for you. Thank you for taking the time to come here.

Banning VOCs was understandable to me. But, why ban the tuners that have no VOC.s? Or at least very low levels.
Why not set a lower limit to VOC's like is done on MSDS forms for chemicals, a limit deemed safe by the government?
The 4mm limit would make a barrier to excessive tuning. Only thin sponges could be tuned without going over the limit. It would be much easeir than making super sensitive equipment to detect microscopic amounts of VOC's that are not a real danger.
Your rules say NO stretching the top sheet. Must be as tested. Are not "Tensors" a way of streching the topsheet? If so, why can manufacturers do it and we can not? Will you ban tensors now causing a huge loss to manufacturers and players alike?
Please give a REASON for the frictionless ban. They were not dominating the world level. I did not use them. I enjoyed playing against them. One more facit to the game. Please,,,a REASON.
What happens at a 1 star or 2 star tourney now where they have no Enez? If some bats "click", now what? Some of the new "tensors" click. We cannot just ignore the ITTF rules. USATT rules are tied to them.

I would have suggested two tests to simplify things. If a bat passes the Enez and the rubber meets the 4mm rule, good to go. The Enez insures safety, the 4mm rule puts a limit on tuning.

Thank you for coming here. :D


Sorry for this terrible delay. I did not real;ize that I was part of this Forum. I have been to so many that I lost track. Now, I am happy to be here. Probably your questions were already addressed in other Forums, but I will try to answer you briefly.

- VOCs were banned due to health reasons and dangers of misuse by children.
- Boosters and Tuners are not legal because they are "additives". It means that they are added to the racket covering after it has been approved and it alters the rubber, which is then different from when it has been approved. This is against the rules of the ITTF and specifically against rule 2.4.7. Perhaps boosters and tuners may contain low levels of VOC but they contain other harmful components. As a mater of fact all responsible TT manufacturers have stopped producing them after we sent them the lab analysis.
- Why banning low-friction pimpled rubbers? Several reasons. Just like we have a limit of thickness of 4mm which was put in effect to control the sudden increase in thickness of rubbers several years ago, it is important to set standards for the equipment used in our sport (like in any other sport). The national associations found it important to set a minimum friction level so as not to have total slippery rubbers that would be deemed, in their opinion, detrimental to the sport. After some research our Equipment Committee recommended the level of 25mN. Once this became a rule, voted upon by more than 90% of the delegates, the racket coverings were tested and those that did not meet the standard were not given the ITTF's authorization. This means they cannot be used in ITTF events.
- Regarding stretching of top sheet: Our rule explanation of the rule (Technical Leaflet No.4) says that a rubber presented by the manufacturer to seek authorization that is stretched to double its size and that reverts to its original size in a certain amount of time (not sure how many minutes) is accepted. So if it ios already stretched but meets the above criteria then it is OK and does receive the authorization. However, after it is authorized it can not be altered. This is why, you as a player cannot alter the rubber. This is the same in all sports.
- Regarding the lower levels events as you mentioned, of course they are not obliged to follow the ITTF rules. This decision is made by the National Association. Some national associations adopt the ITTF rules at all levels 100%, and some don't. In England for example they adopt the ITTF rules only for their national events and top league, the rest of the leagues decide themselves what they wish to do. The ITTF does not force any association to adopt its rules, but most do. So in the countries were ITTF rules are applied across the board, we expect that players respect the rule at that they are governed within the confines of the honour system.
- The current period September-December is a transition period. As of 1 January 2009 the ITTF will enforce its rules at the international level very strictly as follows:
- 4mm thickness across the blade
- flatness of the racket covering across the blade
- detect VOCs at very low levels
- detect presence of Boosters and Tuners or any other additive
- check for the top sheet being altered in any way
- glossiness

In my opinion we must give sufficient time and review the situation in a year or two.


Adham

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