OOAK Table Tennis Forum

Glossiness is the easiest problem to solve. You are right, some rubbers are too glossy. When we receive the samples from the manufacturer they do pass the glossy test. But after production and when they are packed, etc., it seems that some rubbers become too glossy. Also we noticed that some retailers or even players store their rubbers in a sunny area or in an overly heated area. Some rubbers react to that and become rather glossy. However, glissy rubber is easy to solve. You just need to rub it against a dry even cloth a few times and the sheen or gloss will be reduced quite a bit. We had some cases of overly glossy rubber coming out of the manufacturer, and we have issued warnings to them. In fact we had such a case at the Paralympic Games. In this case the player was very nice and played with another rubber, but in fact we issued a stern warning to the manufacturer and we will be testing their rubbers randomly at the retail level.

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Adham Sharara

Of course this is one point of view, and I don't disagree with you. But unfortunately for you, the majority of the national associations, the members of the ITTF and those that set the rules do not see it the same way as you. Table tennis must be already the sport that offers the most variety in terms of equipment. Could you find another sport that has so much variety? try comparing with tennis and squash and badminton. In TT we have pimpled rubber, inverted rubber, short pimples, long pimples, low-friction, frictionless, high density pimples, low density pimples, hard pimples, soft pimples, bending pimples, inverted high friction tacky rubber, low friction smooth rubber, fast rubber, slow rubber, soft sponge, slow sponge, 1mm, 1.5mm, 2 mm. 2.5 mm, spinny, anti-spin, etc., etc. Give me a break! With all of the above, I cannot imagine that creativity would be affected.

So if those that control the rules of our sport decide to put some limitations, because in their own collective majority opinion they feel it's best for the sport, then let's give it a chance. let's judge after one or two years.

Why not be more creative with "technique"? Practice spin variation using the same stroke, practice spin variation using the wrist, practice spin variation using the fore-arm acceleration, practice spin variation with various contact points on the ball, and then practice all of the above while your stroke (technique) looks the same to your opponent. That is the way to go. Now doing all of the above try to produce variations from no spin to maximum spin, all with seemingly the same stroke. And I have just touched upon spin. The same with speed and the same with placement. You will quickly learn that this is much more beneficial than the equipment changes. Use equipment to enhance your style and performance but not to depend on it.

The question of the ban on boosters and tuners and low-friction rubbers is a question of the majority. The majority has spoken, the rule was made, now we must all respect it. Just like smokers cannot smoke on flights, and just like salesmen and real-estate agents can no longer use their cell phones (mobile phones) in the car in my country. They don't like it, but they have to respect it.

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Adham Sharara

Hi Adham,
Thank you very much for coming here. I can accept what you say. I do hope there are not alot of other changes in the works. Like you say, lets wait a couple years to see how what we have works out. I do think people are worried about continuing changes.
I think it would reduce worries if players found out about "proposed" changes sooner. If the table tennis community in general knew about proposed changes, you would get feedback that should help your voting members make a better decision on rule changes.

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Welcome back Adham, very pleased to see you found your way back here

Yes you make some valid points in your reply to Kees, and I do agree with you to some extent...

But when it comes to voting, we have to consider how fair this process is.... In other words was there adequate representation from frictionless players to discuss and vote on this issue? It reminds me a little of a court case in the old USA days, where an all-white jury needs to make a judgement on whether a wite or black person is guilty... An extreme example I know, but I'm sure you get my point...

The impact is also huge at the lower and social levels, and these rubers were very common among veterans, as it allowed them to be competitive when they no longer had the speed to keep up with the game... These people are often key to the survival of local clubs...
I realise your rules are made mostly for the interntional players and the elite, but i think the decison has made very little impact there, as there were so few using it...

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And what is the reason that "slippery rubbers" as you call them are detrimental?

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It would be great if you could all focus all your questions only on this thread "Accepted Invitation". I hope I am putting this message in the right thread, I'm a bit of a neophyte in this technology.

I have seen several other threads, but all seem to have the same topic even if they have different titles.

Regarding the ban of boosters and tuners, as well as the minimum friction level of 25mN, I have answered these questions extensively in other forums, I am really sorry that I have ignored this Forum for a long time (actually I did not realize I had joined it). Now, I have bookmarked it and I will come over regularly. But I travel a lot so sometimes I may not be able to answer immediately.

I would welcome new topics if at all possible, but always in this thread, then it makes it easier for me to answer. Thank you.

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Adham Sharara

It is important to understand the process. It's not up to me to inform the national associations of what the players think. It is your responsibility as a player to let the authorities in your country know what the palyers think, using the system in existence in your country (clubs, regional associations, provincial associations, magazines, web-site of associations, the national association, etc.). The members of the ITTF are NOT the players. Just like the members of the UN are not the people. In fact the members of the ITTF are the 205 national associations, just like national governments are the members of the UN. This is the structure of ALL international sports federations.

As for a proposed change, it usually takes at least 2 years to get a change through, sometimes longer and sometimes a bit faster. But the process is long and all the national associations are aware of the changes. We also post all the propositions on our web-sites before each Annual general meeting (AGM) and before each Board of Directors meeting (BoD). The ITTF is very open and there are no secrets, nor conspiracies as many may think in other forums.

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Adham Sharara

I suppose it depends how the representatives of each national association are elected. Normally the delegates that come to the ITTF meetings to represent the national association are the Presidents of that association, or the VP, etc. These people are elected in their own national association. So, technically they represent the majority views in the national association. This is the normal democratic system that most international bodies use. So, if in your country those that support the low-friction rubbers are in a minority, and the majority is represented by the leadership, then the majority wins. This is the reality. This is the democratic way. I found myself oin a minority on certain issues, but once a vote is taken, I have to respect the rule of the majority.

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Adham Sharara

Hi Adham,

Appreciate your time and your answers. On this issue of tensors, could you please clarify why they are legal. I use a tensor, so want them to be legal, but if the rubber is stretched by the sponge post ITTF testing, then how can it be?

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Dear Mr. Sharara,

Welcome to the forum.

Here is an issue that has been troubling a lot of players on this forum. Since the pros don't use frictionless rubber there is no chance of the style appearing on TV matches and if there are no health issues, why the need for this minimum friction level that had caused so much unhappiness to players, manufacturers, associations and the ITTF itself?

If the rule was simply to eliminate "treated" rubber, then why doesn't the rule directly address that very issue?

You yourself have admitted on another forum that "it is better to learn how to play against a certain style than to ban the equipment that the users of that style employ."

And you are right!

So how do we get this fixed? Please don't suggest we go through our local associations. As you know but can't admit, most of these groups are 'yes men' who would rubber stamp almost anything they're lobbied to approve. The fact is there are certain activist associations that push the agenda and it's no secret that Eberhard Schöler and the German Association are behind this wrongheaded policy.

It can be argued that the minimum friction requirement will open up the ITTF to lawsuits such as that by TTMaster. And if TTMaster prevails and collects damages, legal problems with Dr. Neubauer, Hallmark and other companies are sure to follow.

Immediately rescinding this useless friction level policy that hurts the sport so much would make the issue go away.

I realize you can't criticize the powerful Schöler lobby on a public forum like this, but for the good of the sport perhaps something can be done behind the scenes.

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I am not technically knowledgeable enough to answer this question with full scientific backing. But my understanding is as follows:
- the manufacturer submits a rubber for authorization to the ITTF
- one of the tests conducted is a "stretch" test.
- the rubber is stretched to double its size (or something like that) and then left to rest, if it regains its original shape in a certain amount of time, then it's OK.
- to get the exact details go to our website and look for Technical Leaflet No.4 (T-4)
- so if the rubber is already stretched by the manufacturer (as Tensor is) and it still passes the test I described above, then it will be authorized.

The problem is if it is altered "after" it is authorized. I have not heard that Tensor is illegal.

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Adham Sharara

I have the highest respect for Mr. Schöler as a player and official. We may have disagreed on many issues over the years, but I fully respect his knowledge and his integrity.

I need you to understand that in fact you are in the minority. The majority of national associations, more than 90% think that the minimum friction level established is good for the sport. You may not believe this and you may think exactly the opposite, but the REALITY is that this rule was proposed and voted upon and passed. Now we must respect it. In fact the majority won. The majority does not want frictionless LPs and they got their way. If you were in the majority, then this rule would not have passed and probably never even introduced. You guys have to wake up and accept this fact. Once you accept this reality, then what should you do? I believe these are your choices:
- quit TT
- wallow in your own sorrow and hope that by some miracle the rule will be reversed
- form your own group with your own rules and enjoy TT the way you like it
- find new equipment and set a new goal and practice

Maybe other choices may present themselves to you of which I could not think.

As for manufacturers taking ITTF to court. This is their right. If they believe that the ITTF did something wrong to them, then of course they have the right to go to court. On the other hand the ITTF believes it did things right. Then it's up to the court to decide. This is normal. This is why we have courts.

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Adham Sharara

I'm not sure you understood the question here, the process we're asking about is:

1. The topsheet is submitted and approved...
2. The manufacturer makes more topsheets (exactly the same as the one approved) and also sponges, but puts the two together under tension, so the topsheet is effectively in a stretched state, thereby creating tension.

Although this is a very simplistic explanation, I think you get what I mean... I believe many manufacturers produce rubber with some form of tension like this...A topsheet cannot be under tension by itself, so this cannot observed during ITTF approval.

So the question is, is this legal?

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Dear Mr. Sharara,

Thank you for your candid answer. I still think the majority of associations were indifferent to the frictionless issue and blindly rubber stamped what Schöler and the activist associations pushed. You've seen the passion and anger this rule has caused on the various boards you've visited. I'm sure many players will ultimately take your advice and quit TT. I maybe hoped that there would be a miracle and common sense would prevail, but I think you have erased that notion. Killing a style of play is not healthy for the sport. Crushing a minority is not democratic. Inconsistently applying the equipment rules isn't fair. Well, in any event, I do appreciate you taking the time to visit the forums and sample public opinion. In honor of that I've changed my avantar.

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Dear Mr. Adham Sharara,

Would you mind posting a list of forums that you visit and are active on? You're naturally a busy man, and i'd like to follow up on discussions on other boards that might not be persued here.

Thank you.
Kind regards, Martin

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