OOAK Table Tennis Forum

There was never a conspiracy led by Mr. Scholer. As a matter of fact the Germans in the ITTF are notorious for NOT lobbying. They present their case the best they can and often do not get it through because they do not lobby. In this case, there was a clear majority in favour of this rule. Let;s give Mr. Scholer a break and give him all the respect he deserves. He is also a first class Gentleman.

_________________
Adham Sharara

I will explain the WHY again in a separate post. from a practival point of view the ITTF functions more or less like the United Nations. Our members are the national associations and they or their representatives vote at our meetings (AGM and Board of Directors). It would be impossible for the ITTF to consult every single player in the world (imagine China?) just like the United Nations would not be able to consult every person on earth. We depend on the national associations. In each national association there is a system. In the USA players are direct members of the Association, so they vote directly. But even there, the elected officials decide how they will vote at the ITTF level. They cannot consult the total player population on each issue. I'm sure you understand.

Now regarding 11 points versus 21 points, if I take your argument then perhaps 31 points is better, or even 41 points? Why 11 points? After many experiments it was found to be the logical reduction in the length of the game. By the way, this was proposed by the Athlete's Commission of the ITTF. Some food for thought: A Game in Tennis is 4 points !

_________________
Adham Sharara

[quote="rmaxwellusn"]In all honesty, how do you measure .08 mm. This seems very, very absurd.[/quote]
**********
Absurd ??! Are you sure to state so?
I am a graduated technician and the material meterings is my dayly job
http://urlcut.com/thickness-gauge
http://ttw.ru/images/articles/bty_measuring/5.jpg

Yes, it's pretty much as you describe it, but I will post a separate post just to explain the WHY.

_________________
Adham Sharara

You can ask me any question you like. I am here to explain and shed a light on some of our rules. Of course I cannot change any existing rule or even claim that one is right or wrong. I can explain the common practice, the intent, what to watch for, etc. But the decision of the umpire at the table is the one you as a player have to live with as I am sure you all know.

So nothing wrong with you asking, and nothing wrong with me answering, as long as we agree that when you step in the tournament you are under the authority of the referee and the Umpires, and I can't help you then !

_________________
Adham Sharara

[quote="rmaxwellusn"]In all honesty, how do you measure .08 mm. This seems very, very absurd.[/quote]
**********
Absurd ??! Are you sure to state so?
I am a graduated technician and the material meterings is my dayly job
http://urlcut.com/thickness-gauge
http://ttw.ru/images/articles/bty_measuring/5.jpg

Good point. But would you accept a player showing up at the table with a 15mm thick sponge? That would also be a nice variety. In an earlier post I said that if it were left up to me I would allow players to play with anything they like including a frying pan (maybe someone could find this post). But the fact is that the members of the ITTF wish to set limits and wish to set standards. Once these are passed as rules, it is my duty to respect them.

_________________
Adham Sharara

This proves my point, which I mentioned several times. With good technique the change of equipment will not affect you that much. The players you listed above must be players with good technique. Actually it is interesting to see one of them actaully progressed, very intersting.

Adham

_________________
Adham Sharara

To have a Referendum on a particular issue is very rare in any country. Usually it is a fundamental issue that will affect the entire country. Even going to war is often NOT put to a referendum. In any case, it depends in which country you live. In the USA the players elect their national representatives directly using a voting mail ballot (this may change now). In most other countries there are several levels governing the sport. In Canada for example, we have the clubs, the regions, the the provinces and finally the national association. Each lebvel is elected by the level directly below.
In my case, first I must ne nominated by my own national association (Canada), then the election takes place at the ITTF's Annual General meeting (AGM) at which all member national associations (205) have one vote each. I was elected for 2-year terms in 1999, 2001 and 2003, then the system changed and I was elected for a 4-year term in 2005. The next election is in 2009 (4-year term).
In a poll done on an other Forum I received only 20% of the votes. 80% voted against me. I'm lucky that it does not count. I voted for myself, so I probably got less than 20%.

_________________
Adham Sharara

I really don't know anything about this PSA sheet. I first heard about it from Igor on the German Forum. If it meets all the specifications of the ITTF as is written in the Technical Leaflet, then it should be OK. If it doesn't then it's not OK. I can ask our equipment committee about it.

_________________
Adham Sharara

I will find out about it. Could you give me the exact name, brand, model, etc. please?

_________________
Adham Sharara

I actually like the 11 point rule. It really forces you to focus harder, you can't give a point or two away and still hope to recover very often. I do think it gives the lower rated person a little more of a chance in an individual game, but in the long haul the better player will still figure the lower rated person out more often than not in win.

The only tweak that I'd propose, and like to get feedback on, is making the final game when it's tied at the end of a match to 21. For example, in a best of 5 scenario, the first four games go to 11, but the fifth goes to 21. My reasoning is that, I'll admit, luck does come into play more in 11 point games. If your opponent gets a couple of nets and edges in an earlier game, you still have time to recover. However, when the match is close and hard fought, and tied 2-2, it's a shame for a fifth and deciding game to be based on a lucky break or two. That's why I'd like to see the fifth (or seventh, in best of seven) go to a 21 point game. That way, a long, hard fought match isn't decided in the last game by a couple of breaks one way or the other, and it lengthens the drama of the match.

What do you guys think?

_________________
"The greatest teacher, failure is"
USATT Rating: 1725
Blade: Stiga Cybershape Carbon
FH Rubber: Butterfly Tenergy 19 2.1
BH Rubber: Dr Neubauer ABS3 1.5

Company: Toni Hold
Product: Dampfungsfolie
http://tonihold.com/html/products.html (bottom of the page)

_________________



The MNNB Blog has had some pretty amazing stuff lately. Just click this text to check it out. | My OOAK Interview
Table Tennis Video Links: itTV | laola1.tv | ttbl | fftt | Challenger Series | mnnb-tv

My whole set-up costs less than a sheet of Butterfly Dignics

Adham: We are not allowed to alter rubbers post factory. Yet sponge can be bought seperately. Are we able to put this sponge on? If would seem odd to be allowed to buy sponge but unable to use it. Do you know what the situation is here?

MNNB has given details of the 'glue sheet'. Thanks for looking into it.

I would be interestd to know about the Toni Hold new 40 anti topsin too with it's 0x 'sponge' too. It's the same company. This is a rubber I could play with, but I don't wish to use a reversed rubber which may not be classified as having a sponge). (http://www.tonihold.com/html/products.html ANTI TOP SPIN NEW 40)
I need to change my rubbers and want to change to stuff which I know is legal to use. I don't want to have to go through another rubber trial period again.

I liked your answer on technique and base levels. I do enjoy reading your views. People may choose to base their game on other shots than a loop. For me push, chop, float, roll, flick and kill will do. I feel it is good that you have played to the standard you have, it can only enhance the credibility of your views and must help with the practicality of decisions you and the ITTF have to make. I still disagree with a retrospective ban on principle.

I think it's a little unfair to suggest a game in Tennis is 4 points. To win a match in tennis (mens 5 set match) the minimum point requirement is 72 (a 3 set match would be 48 ). This is equivalent winning to the winning of a table tennis set. At local league I need 33 points. I used to need 42.

My point was that: Over a longer event the better player will win more often and sport should be about finding the best player. Would Tiger dominate golf as much if majors were over 1 hole not 72. Similarly after 18 holes he would be unlikely to be as dominant.
I have no wish to argue about going back to 21 up. I do think 15 may have been a better compromise if it absolutely had to be reduced, but that horse appears to have bolted. Plus it is nice to finish in time for a pint.

Thanks for your replies, it is good of you to take the time and I do enjoy reading your views on the game.

_________________
Equipment Review Index
Joola Turbo: FH: Joola Peking (2mm) , BH: Joola Peking (2mm)
Another one bites the dust.

I hope all you guys take at least a break from the Forum during the holidays, or does it become more active?

To be very honest, I am not an expert on equipment. You are now asking me really very specific equipment questions. The only advice I could give is as follows:
- if the racket covering is authorized by the ITTF appearing on the list of authorized racket coverings, then you can use it.
- if you procure the sponge alone, and then add a rubber on top that is authorized and you affix the 2 together, as long as there are no VOCs, as long as nothing within the sponge will interact with the rubber and alter its characteristics as authorized, then it's OK.
- I really do not know anything about the specific brand you mentioned, just follow the above two points.

Yes, I will look into this issue of the glue sheet. What may make it illegal would be the thickness, but I will find out from our experts.

I also disagree with retroactive implementation of rules, but how is the minimum friction level rule applied retroactively? You mean because some players were using this type of equipment already? But the rule was passed in 2006 and implemented more than a year later with testing of rubbers, so in fact there was much advance notice. How else would you implement this rule?

Maybe you missed my point about Tennis. I was not referring to the length of the match or the total points to be played. I was making reference to a sport that got it right. They have many "short" games. This adds to the excitment. Every Games is a compact 4 point Game. It would even be more fair if they alternated service, as service is very dominant in tennis and to win a match the objective is to hold your own serve and to break the opponent's serve. My point is that by reducing the number of points, and increasing the number of games, you increase the number of "crucial" parts of the match, which are the Game endings. In a fully played 3 out of 5 before, we had 5 game endings, in a current 4 out of 7, we have 7 game ending. It's better, more exciting. Personally, the 11-point game is not in favour of my style (spin variations, tactical development, etc.), but I love it as a spectator, and today I would say that "most" of the players at all levels also like it. Kids like it for obvious reasons (fast, impatient, exciting, etc.), but also it gives older players, in my opinion, a better chance to play more years as the overall match is shorter. In a 3/5 we needed 63 points to win, in a new 4/7 we need 44 points. In fact, it was designed to be about two-thirds of the original (one-third shorter). We had proposals and tests for 7 points games, 9, 11, 13 and 15. The majority of the players tested and surveyed proposed 11 points. Also the AGM chose 11 points (this was proposed by the ITTF's Atheltes Commission). Also 11 points has a tradition in schools and many already played at the recreational level to 11. In any case, I believe it is here to stay, and we can chalk 21 points to history.

Have a good time during the holidays, but don't use the saved time from shorter matches to overload on the extra pints, take it easy.

_________________
Adham Sharara