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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 06:33 
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bvautier wrote:


AA, calm down :-) I thought of those problems as well.

- Firstly I am talking about major ITTF events, where professional meet.
- Most professional are sponsored anyway so it would cost them nothing.


Finally, How many players in your league do you know of tamper their bats? I really expect that only the elite pro would do this, not your average (or even not so average) league player. So the ideas I am suggesting are only for the elite pro players.


you and alex are not aware that most of these brilliant ittf- ideas are copied 1:1 from the national organisations because they want to apply the same rules as the pros. so if something crazy like that comes into action on pro level you can be sure that it will be implemented on national level at meaningful tournaments.

i know of many players that tamper with their bats and in all honesty i couldnt give a rats ass because i am in full disagreement with these rules in the first place, so i never would complain, even if if my opponent glued infront of my face.

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 07:05 
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Dear Adham,


if you try to "beat" other sports like you said - you can't win. It's sure impossible!

Give the best for your sport - don't care about the others!

Otherwise you won't be a good President.

A marathon runner won't run his best time, if he still looks after the others and how fast they are - it would slow him down.


I hope you understand...


The more rules - the less players - the less people being interested - the less people watching TT on TV...

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 07:23 
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AA wrote:
you and alex are not aware that most of these brilliant ittf- ideas are copied 1:1 from the national organisations because they want to apply the same rules as the pros. so if something crazy like that comes into action on pro level you can be sure that it will be implemented on national level at meaningful tournaments.

i know of many players that tamper with their bats and in all honesty i couldnt give a rats ass because i am in full disagreement with these rules in the first place, so i never would complain, even if if my opponent glued infront of my face.


How do you know what I'm not aware of? You seem to think that just because some of us are not making angry or sarcastic remarks, that we agree with these ITTF ideas??? :shock:

Adham has chosen to share these ideas with us before they are formally proposed... would you rather that he had not said anything at all?

I personally can't see much merit for us amateur players either, but knowing about this idea up front allows me to consider the Pros and Cons of the idea, and if I choose to do so, formulate a letter to present my case before the proposal is made. Isn't this far more constructive?

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 07:32 
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haggisv wrote:

How do you know what I'm not aware of? You seem to think that just because some of us are not making angry or sarcastic remarks, that we agree with these ITTF ideas??? :shock:



no you misunderstood me! in an earlier post you said that the ittf would work together with national associations etc. from experience i can tell you that every nonesense that is implemented by the ittf is copied from the national organisations (with very few sane exceptions, i applaud england and nigeria). even tournament protocol like taking random samples 30 min before a game at tournaments was copied (= no way of warming up 30 min before the game).

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 08:51 
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By the way, did you see the games of Fabian Akkerström in Stuttgart?

He defenitely played some treated pips rubber - no one of the referees asked for this...
EDIT: I believe that - no proof!!!

A rule is only a rule, if it can really be controlled (evereyone with kids knows what i mean :wink: :roll: ).

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Last edited by flatulenzio on 24 Sep 2009, 09:18, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 09:05 
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flatulenzio wrote:
He defenitely played some treated pips rubber - no one of the referees asked for this...

I hope you have proof if you're going to make this allegation. If you're basing this on watching a block from a youtube snippet or reading it on a forum, it's just a groundless accusation. I could just as easily claim Michael Maze definitely was using a hollowed out blade when he beat Boll based on my observations. Of course, this would be just as preposterous.

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 09:16 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
flatulenzio wrote:
He defenitely played some treated pips rubber - no one of the referees asked for this...

I hope you have proof if you're going to make this allegation. If you're basing this on watching a block from a youtube snippet or reading it on a forum, it's just a groundless accusation. I could just as easily claim Michael Maze definitely was using a hollowed out blade when he beat Boll based on my observations. Of course, this would be just as preposterous.
:mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:



So: I'm sorry, I BELIEVE!!! :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
(actually i'm pretty sure - as sure as i am that lot's of the others tuned their rubbers...)


Fabian played a great Championship and it was a pleasure to watch him!

And thanx for the indoctrination...

Peace

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 09:39 
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mynamenotbob wrote:
flatulenzio wrote:
I could just as easily claim Michael Maze definitely was using a hollowed out blade when he beat Boll based on my observations.


no, but maze (although i really enjoy watching him *g*) clearly was serving incorrectly non-stop, anyone can watch this simple fact on various youtube links. it seems the referees cannot even enforce the simple ittf serving rule. and did it ever strike the ittf that all one has to do to get away with tuning is to take a thinner sponge? i wish the ittf would concentrate on making this sport more popular, but maybe the task is too daunting..

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 09:46 
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AA wrote:
...i wish the ittf would concentrate in making this sport more popular...


That's what i tried to say...

It can't be done, if you only enact more and more rules.

Like any good company - also the ittf should get some independent expert advice.




Good night everybody

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 10:06 
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It's a very common expression used in Arabic, and used very often by teachers at schools, the meaning is:
"Repetition could even teach a mule". As you know donkeys and mules are considered stubborn, but if you repeat and repeat they eventually learn. So the exact translation:

El etekrar = the repetition
be allem = teaches
el homar = the mule (or donkey)

Teachers in schools in arab countries repeat this phrase to their students very often, when they find that they have to repeat an explanation many times to get it through.[/quote]

Now, how many times did they have to say it to you before you remembered it? :wink:

Thanks for answering my questions regarding blades, I do hope that the new blade authorisation will still allow for small manufacturers to be around and able to make and sell blades at a reasonable price. Perhaps a discount on the authorisation cost for those who make less then x numbers of blades?

@bbkon, if Liu did beat Waldner for 8 years, don't you think it was about time Waldner managed to beat Liu? Especially considering the usual amount of time Chinese players are active at the world stage. Sure, it could still be an equipment thing, but this happens in a lot of sports, look at tennis and last years Wimbledon, the court was made slower then usual to make it fit Nadal better then Federer. We had a Swedish ski jumper that invented a style of his own and won a lot, but they changed the rules to make his style less effective when it came to getting points. Look at swimming with everything that is going on with the swimsuits used! Compared to that, I think ITTF is doing a great job, al though I'm conservative my self and don't like to many changes.[/quote]

My teachers in Canada never said that to me because they only spoke English or French. But I have been told many times to stop coming to this Forum, but in Italian they call me "Testa dura", which is better than being called a "homar". But I have to admit, sometimes I wonder if I am not a "homar" for taking part in Forums under my own name.

You make a good point about the authorization fee, and since the objective is not to make money, I am sure that your suggestion will be taken into consideration.

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 10:14 
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AA wrote:
adham wrote:

It's a good idea and being looked at. It is rather human resource intensive, but could be done at the top ITTF events and at the Olympics where human resources and volunteers are readily available. I will pass on your suggestions to the group of experts looking into this matter.

Thank you for providing a positive input to the issue and for providing constructive criticism with suggestions for a solution. It is much appreciated.


when i read the proposal i thought it was too absurd for words, thats why i didnt comment on it. adhams response is mind boggling, but not surprising, it just would be the next absurd rule, the absurdest by far.

are you actually aware what you are talking about?

it would mean that every player would need to play with a brand new rubber. if this rule is enforced on national level, as all others, this would mean all players would need to buy new rubbers at each tournament. hooray for the industray, not so hooray for your wallet.

but what takes the cake is the idea that a total stranger is supposed to fix my bat! are you for real? has it struck anyone that the amount of glue, even if voc free, etc. plays a vital role??

this is getting more and more ridiculous by the minute, why not attach a camera on the players head 1 week in advance before a tournament, then the ittf "control center" can monitor the players activity. could you kindly look into this too adham?


The proposal was not bad, it was an idea, of course the details would have to be worked out, but as a general proposal it is worth looking into it. Positive ideas as solutions should never be shouted down, on the contrary in such ideas you can always find a creative solution. For example, a simple variation is that the player shows up at the racket control with rubber and blade separate, one volunteer could check 4 or 5 players at a time, the rubber and blade are tested, then the player himself glues in front of the official or volunteer. This is a slight variation to the proposal but would work. The next person could improve on my variation, etc. This is how we arrive to a good solution at the end. But if you put an idea down right at the start, then you will arrive to nothing, nada!

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 10:17 
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bvautier wrote:
AA wrote:
adham wrote:

It's a good idea and being looked at. It is rather human resource intensive, but could be done at the top ITTF events and at the Olympics where human resources and volunteers are readily available. I will pass on your suggestions to the group of experts looking into this matter.

Thank you for providing a positive input to the issue and for providing constructive criticism with suggestions for a solution. It is much appreciated.


when i read the proposal i thought it was too absurd for words, thats why i didnt comment on it. adhams response is mind boggling, but not surprising, it just would be the next absurd rule, the absurdest by far.

are you actually aware what you are talking about?

it would mean that every player would need to play with a brand new rubber. if this rule is enforced on national level, as all others, this would mean all players would need to buy new rubbers at each tournament. hooray for the industray, not so hooray for your wallet.

but what takes the cake is the idea that a total stranger is supposed to fix my bat! are you for real? has it struck anyone that the amount of glue, even if voc free, etc. plays a vital role??

this is getting more and more ridiculous by the minute, why not attach a camera on the players head 1 week in advance before a tournament, then the ittf "control center" can monitor the players activity. could you kindly look into this too adham?



AA, calm down :-) I thought of those problems as well.

- Firstly I am talking about major ITTF events, where professional meet.
- Most professional are sponsored anyway so it would cost them nothing.
- About the gluing of the rubber. I also thought that a total stranger might not be the best solution. But I just wanted to put the idea out there so people can discuss it.
The concept is similar to the one used with tennis, where there is only one person that re-strings a racket during a tournament.
However there could be special gluing booths where a player has to glue his racket in front of an official. So that would solve your concerns.

Anyway I was just putting ideas out there to be discussed, it may give someone else an other idea that is more workable.

Finally, How many players in your league do you know of tamper their bats? I really expect that only the elite pro would do this, not your average (or even not so average) league player. So the ideas I am suggesting are only for the elite pro players.


Your idea had many positive aspects, and with some modifications could actually work well. You know what people said to the Wright Brothers? "Are you nuts, you will never get that thing off the ground". How many people think of that today as they step into an airplane?

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 10:21 
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AA wrote:
bvautier wrote:


AA, calm down :-) I thought of those problems as well.

- Firstly I am talking about major ITTF events, where professional meet.
- Most professional are sponsored anyway so it would cost them nothing.


Finally, How many players in your league do you know of tamper their bats? I really expect that only the elite pro would do this, not your average (or even not so average) league player. So the ideas I am suggesting are only for the elite pro players.


you and alex are not aware that most of these brilliant ittf- ideas are copied 1:1 from the national organisations because they want to apply the same rules as the pros. so if something crazy like that comes into action on pro level you can be sure that it will be implemented on national level at meaningful tournaments.

i know of many players that tamper with their bats and in all honesty i couldnt give a rats ass because i am in full disagreement with these rules in the first place, so i never would complain, even if if my opponent glued infront of my face.


Actually the craziest idea I ever heard was that crazy guy that decided to take Tennis indoors and play it on a dining room table using cigar boxes as bats and the cork of a champagne bottle as a ball, and books across the table as a net. Wow! What a crazy guy. What was he thinking? Yada, Yada, Yada, fast forward a few decades and what do we have? A crazy sport called table tennis or ping pong. I for one am very glad there were no internet forums then to ridicule this guy's idea, don't you think?

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 10:24 
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Some rubbers take time to break in. Would players be allowed to reglue "used" rubbers?

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PostPosted: 24 Sep 2009, 10:26 
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flatulenzio wrote:
Dear Adham,


if you try to "beat" other sports like you said - you can't win. It's sure impossible!

Give the best for your sport - don't care about the others!

Otherwise you won't be a good President.

A marathon runner won't run his best time, if he still looks after the others and how fast they are - it would slow him down.


I hope you understand...


The more rules - the less players - the less people being interested - the less people watching TT on TV...


Yes, I understand, and of course you are right. Unfortunately the reality is different. We need to expose our sport on TV to increase its popularity. The TV programming time is limited, so to do that we need to compete with other sports to get TV time for our sport. We also need money to run our programmes and our events, to do that we need money from sponsors, and again unfortunately we and all other sports compete for the same sponsorship money. So, although I agree with you in principle, but in reality I cannot help but compete with other sports. All sports federations know that and we do it in an atmosphere of mutual respect.

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