OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 23 Nov 2017, 12:57


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 379 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 26  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2009, 09:20 
Offline
OOAK Super User
OOAK Super User
User avatar

Joined: 09 Oct 2008, 00:48
Posts: 2041
Location: Lafayette, California
Has thanked: 9 times
Been thanked: 73 times
mynamenotbob wrote:
Smartguy wrote:
the current practice creates problems for the players, who legally buy their authorised rubbers and suddenly can not use them any longer, if the manufacturer goes broke e.g.. Although these rubbers still meet all the authorisation criteria.

Ask Adham if once the ITTF starts approving blades, when a blade manufacturer goes out of business (or dies) and stops paying annual fees, are we no longer allowed to use our blades?
Or, what if a particular model of blade is discontinued.. must the manufacturer continue to pay annual ITTF listing fees on it lest it be purged from the approved equipment list?

_________________
BBC Ghost, TSP Spinpips RED 2.1, Dragon Talon OX


Top
 Profile  
 

PostPosted: 13 Oct 2009, 11:29 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31563
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1505 times
Been thanked: 966 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
m3ch_rip wrote:
Regarding this question, i'd like to know, if it would be allowed to minimize the blade size in order to reduce the weight?


I think the whole idea of authorising it is make sure the blade complies with the rules, so i doubt any modification would be allowed. Note though that this approval process is just an idea at this stage, and I personally doubt it will ever be implimented...

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2009, 14:12 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 10:22
Posts: 624
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times
haggisv wrote:
I think the whole idea of authorising it is make sure the blade complies with the rules, so i doubt any modification would be allowed. Note though that this approval process is just an idea at this stage, and I personally doubt it will ever be implimented...


I am not sure either, that authorising of blades will be implemented, but we can see a clear step in this direction. I mean Adham's statement about "shaved" blades, which I quoted earlier in this thread. About which I asked 4 simple questions. I think, we should take this Adham's move seriously.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 13 Oct 2009, 16:44 
Offline
I am Legend
I am Legend
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 18:21
Posts: 5777
Location: Queensland
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 43 times
Blade: Xiom Offensive S
FH: Regalis Blue Max
BH: Regalis Blue Max
If he starts pointing the finger it might wind up as legal trouble.

Why don't you buy some and find out for yourself?

_________________
Shih Tzu

NEW RUBBER MASS INDEX || OLD RUBBER MASS INDEX


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2009, 01:44 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 10:22
Posts: 624
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times
Silver wrote:
If he starts pointing the finger it might wind up as legal trouble.


If 1) someone says: "Players A,B,C were caught at the tournaments D,E,F using blades G,H,I shaved by manufacturers J,K,L and 2) it is true, then I don't see any legal trouble here.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Oct 2009, 08:52 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 10:22
Posts: 624
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times
speedplay wrote:
Obviously, ITTF will never go out with the names, why should they? There policy is to keep everything between them and the manufacturers and they don't even make it public ...


At least in some cases the names of disqualified players were reviled to the public, it is not the general policy of ITTF to conceal such things. So if some players were caught using "shaved" blades, it would be quite natural to tell the truth about it.

The policy of ITTF has been not to authorise blades. I can well imagine, that some people would like to change this policy to the opposite. I don't know who exactly and for what reasons. Anyway, Adham made a statement about "shaved" blades, and I asked him 4 questions about it. Maybe he needs some more time to answer them.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2009, 07:47 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 10 Jun 2007, 09:24
Posts: 335
Location: Universe
Has thanked: 11 times
Been thanked: 19 times
It is obvious to methat Adham will never announce in public any of the names involved in producing or distributing the shaved blades. Noway is ITTF interested in giving a boost to this illegal product. //The only thing I'm firmly convinced of is that it should be a superior, technically advanced manufacture to make such a precise concave shaving on a wood material with the finest accuracy of 0.2 mm or so.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2009, 08:19 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31563
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1505 times
Been thanked: 966 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
igorponger wrote:
It is obvious to methat Adham will never announce in public any of the names involved in producing or distributing the shaved blades. Noway is ITTF interested in giving a boost to this illegal product. //The only thing I'm firmly convinced of is that it should be a superior, technically advanced manufacture to make such a precise concave shaving on a wood material with the finest accuracy of 0.2 mm or so.


Good point, I agree!

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Oct 2009, 10:18 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 10:22
Posts: 624
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times
igorponger wrote:
It is obvious to methat Adham will never announce in public any of the names involved in producing or distributing the shaved blades. Noway is ITTF interested in giving a boost to this illegal product.


I understand the point, but I disagree. Sorry, hagisv. :)

If revealing the names of the manufacturers who produce "shaved" blades would boost this product, they would have done that themselves long ago, obviously to boost this product. I can't imagine a manufacturer, who don't wont to boost their product.

The counter argument could be, that they do not reveal their names themselves, because their product is illegal. So they would like to keep it secret. However, in this case they would have also to sell it secretly through secret dealers. And the customers? They must also keep the secret. And if someone talks, it is no secret any more. Then who would use a blade known to be illegal at the tournaments? I don't think, such a business would work.

I also see great difficulties to make a rubber fit into such a "shaved" blade, so that it's surface remains even. Also if the rubber is tuned in the middle and becomes uneven, it is nevertheless very unlikely, that it matches exactly the uneven surface of the "shaved" blade.

These considerations give me a reason to believe, that Adham has been misled by some people. Maybe he needs some more time to find it out.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 06 Nov 2009, 21:16 
Offline
Full member
User avatar

Joined: 06 Nov 2009, 20:58
Posts: 59
Location: Germany
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 2 times
Blade: CUBIXX100
FH: HARDCORE max.
BH: SPINPARASITE 1,0mm
Hi Adham ,
i would like to know if there comes a authentic control unit to measure the friction on long/short pimples, next time.
Or all arbiter will only take the ITTF equipment List and controll with it.
Thanks good day

_________________
Wood: der-materialspezialist Spinhunter
RH: der-materialspezialist Beast 1,2mm
VH:der-materialspezialist UNDERTAKER 1,0mm


www.der-materialspezialist.com


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 04 Dec 2009, 10:07 
Offline
Super User

Joined: 06 Dec 2008, 10:22
Posts: 624
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 6 times
Hi Adham,

at the AGM 2008 the rule 2.4.7 was passed:

Quote:
The covering material should be used as it has been authorised by the ITTF
without any physical, chemical or other treatment, changing or modifying
playing properties, friction, outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.


As we know, AGM can only pass a rule, if a so called "proposition" has been made.

In the list of propositions to the AGM 2008 I didn't find a proposition for the rule 2.4.7. I did found the text, but it was not a proposition. The text was formulated as an explanation to a completely different proposition №7:

Quote:
Proposed by the Equipment Committee

To modify paragraph 2.4.3.1:

2.4.3.1 Ordinary pimpled rubber is a single layer of non-cellular
homogeneous rubber, natural or synthetic, with pimples evenly
distributed over its surface at a density of not less than 10 per sq. cm
and not more than 30 per sq. cm.

Explanation:
The racket covering should be used as it has been authorised without any physical, chemical or
other treatment (except normal wear) – changing or modifying playing properties, friction,
outlook, colour, structure, surface, etc.


As far as I understand, an "explanation" is not a "proposition", and the text of an explanation can not become the text of a rule.

It would be great, if you could clarify that.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 10 Dec 2009, 09:26 
Offline
Super User
User avatar

Joined: 04 Jun 2008, 16:33
Posts: 772
Location: Chicago
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Right now, a manufacturer or factory is permitted to apply boosters to a rubber but a player is not. Many players find this unreasonable in principle. It may not be designed to make money for the manufacturers, but that is the result. Is there anything in the works to provide a remedy to this?

A year ago on this forum you (adham) had indicated that you would support a change to allow boosters. Boosters generally need to be applied far in advance; using them immediately before a match doesn't work. Would you still support such a change if a national association were to submit a proposal for it?

_________________
Equipment: Matsushita PowerDefence, Spin Art 1.9 black, Xiying 979 ox red
Style: American | US Rating: barely 2000


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2009, 07:25 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31563
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1505 times
Been thanked: 966 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
kagin wrote:
Right now, a manufacturer or factory is permitted to apply boosters to a rubber but a player is not. Many players find this unreasonable in principle. It may not be designed to make money for the manufacturers, but that is the result. Is there anything in the works to provide a remedy to this?


Adham: In fact they do not apply a booster after the fact, they apply some not toxic materials, such as the so-called boosters or tuners, at the manufacturing level in the process of preparing the rubber. Then they ensure that any residue (as much as possible) VOC or other toxic elements are removed before packaging. The result is a better quality rubber, closer to what the players like, and that eliminates the necessity of the players using boosters or tuners themselves. Although most "organic" boosters or tuners contain very low concentrations of VOC, they may contain other harmful elements. We much prefer that players can use the rubber as it is without any additives in which we do not know what is contained. Hoefully the quality of the rubbers from the manufacturers will continue to improve to the point that additional boosting is not required. In my opinion this will take another year or so.


kagin wrote:
A year ago on this forum you (adham) had indicated that you would support a change to allow boosters.

Adham:Correct


kagin wrote:
Boosters generally need to be applied far in advance; using them immediately before a match doesn't work. Would you still support such a change if a national association were to submit a proposal for it?


Adham:Yes, if it can be proven that there are no health hazards and if the thickness of the racket cover remains at 4mm or less.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2009, 07:28 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31563
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1505 times
Been thanked: 966 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
mynamenotbob wrote:
Ask Adham if once the ITTF starts approving blades, when a blade manufacturer goes out of business (or dies) and stops paying annual fees, are we no longer allowed to use our blades?

On the proposal to introduce blade authorisation or approval (these
details have probably not been worked out yet I suspect?)
- If the ITTF does start approving blades, when a blade manufacturer goes
out of business (or dies) and stops paying annual fees, are we no longer
allowed to use our blades?

Adham: No, usually there is a period of time allowed. For example for Rubbers it is 10 years, with periodical testing on the market to ensure compliance. The same would happen with blades. Then of course they will deplete on the market in any case.


- If a particular model of blade is discontinued.. must the manufacturer
continue to pay annual ITTF listing fees on it lest it be purged from the
approved equipment list?

Adham: Yes, just like rubbers today. Some are discontinued but the stock with retailers is still large, then the Manufacturer continues to pay the yearly authorization fee. But this amount is very small. The large amount is the "first" authorization, the yearly renewal is minimal ($200-$300 per year)

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 12 Dec 2009, 07:30 
Offline
Dark Knight
Dark Knight
User avatar

Joined: 13 Dec 2006, 12:34
Posts: 31563
Location: Adelaide, AU
Has thanked: 1505 times
Been thanked: 966 times
Blade: Trinity Carbon
FH: Victas VS > 401
BH: Dornenglanz OX
materialspezialist wrote:
Hi Adham ,
i would like to know if there comes a authentic control unit to measure the friction on long/short pimples, next time.
Or all arbiter will only take the ITTF equipment List and controll with it.
Thanks good day

Friction levels of pips
- Will there be an authentic and standard control unit to measure the
friction of pips,
or will the umpires simply use the ITTF approved list?

Adham: At International events there will be eventually a unit. But for all other events, just the list.

_________________
OOAK Table Tennis Shop | Table Tennis Reviews / Articles | Table Guide | Robot Guide | Re-Impact Blades
Setup1: Re-Impact Smart, Viper OX, Victas VS 401 Setup2: Re-Impact Barath, Dtecs OX, TSP Triple Spin Chop 1.0mm Setup3: Re-Impact Dark Knight, Hellfire OX, 999 Turbo
Recent Articles: Tenergy Alternatives | Tenergy Rubbers Compared | Re-Impact User Guide | Novel way to glue OX pips


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 379 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5 ... 26  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: