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PostPosted: 11 Oct 2014, 14:12 
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agenthex wrote:
Baal wrote:
True but they didn't work out real well, they fractured even more than usual seamless plastic balls and their playing qualities were so hopelessly bad that players would probably have chased down officials with pitchforks. And as you might have expected, they didn't appear any more visible to spectators. On the other hand, maybe money is involved.


I skipped through it then and didn't recall any broken balls.

The matches are pretty good so maybe someone can watch more carefully:

Ovtcharov in first. Joo in second.


That info was from news accounts that included player interviews.

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PostPosted: 11 Oct 2014, 16:25 
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Baal wrote:
That info was from news accounts that included player interviews.


The only thing I can find is reports a couple of players broke some balls in training before this switch. If this were a problem during matches surely there must be some controversy afterward.


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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2014, 01:22 
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agenthex wrote:
Baal wrote:
That info was from news accounts that included player interviews.


The only thing I can find is reports a couple of players broke some balls in training before this switch. If this were a problem during matches surely there must be some controversy afterward.


From personal experience, the durability of the Chinese seamed balls is a big problem, at least as things stand for balls that were manufactured in June and before that. Hopefully they will improve that, and also develop a ball that can bounce. Seamless balls at least bounce, and I really hope they will develop a strong following. If we have to use plastic balls, so far those are the ones that are least messed up.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2014, 08:53 
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Baal wrote:
My sample of XSF balls is greater than 60, some from March, some from Aprol. My sample of Joola balls is greater than 20. My sample of DHS balls is about 35. Nittaku SHA about 10. DF, about 10. TSP 3. Interestingly, all of the seamed balls I have tried have been from month of June. I have been using polyballs more or less exclusively for two months plus. I still am convinced the seamless balls are better. I think you will find if you look carefully at various forums that most people who have had recent experience with seamless like them better. But it is not unanimous.

Thanks Baal!
Yes you may well be right, you've tried a lot more than me, so you're in a better position to judge. :up: Hopefully over time both will get better and much closer to each other too.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2014, 14:06 
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haggisv wrote:
Baal wrote:
My sample of XSF balls is greater than 60, some from March, some from Aprol. My sample of Joola balls is greater than 20. My sample of DHS balls is about 35. Nittaku SHA about 10. DF, about 10. TSP 3. Interestingly, all of the seamed balls I have tried have been from month of June. I have been using polyballs more or less exclusively for two months plus. I still am convinced the seamless balls are better. I think you will find if you look carefully at various forums that most people who have had recent experience with seamless like them better. But it is not unanimous.

Thanks Baal!
Yes you may well be right, you've tried a lot more than me, so you're in a better position to judge. :up: Hopefully over time both will get better and much closer to each other too.


I am still really happy with the XSF balls. I have to say, after playing with them for awhile, it is a little easier to play with the seamed balls because I am pretty much entirely accustomed to the slower speed and lower spin now. That part is the same with all of the polyballs because they are larger -- indeed since according to some measurements the seamless balls are actually the largest diameter polyball, it may be more pronounced with them, but it doesn't seem to matter (given a bit of time) if the bounce is logical and predictable. I still find the bounce of seamed balls to be too low and unpredictable. I still find them really annoying.

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PostPosted: 12 Oct 2014, 15:38 
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It does make you wonder why they make the seamless bigger. You'd think if they make them closer to 40.00mm they would perform better AND be more durable.

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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014, 07:47 
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haggisv wrote:
It does make you wonder why they make the seamless bigger. You'd think if they make them closer to 40.00mm they would perform better AND be more durable.


One update. Today somebody brought some IPong seamless balls, presumably made by XSF, but not ITTF approved. They were terrible, essentially the are the same as the XSF balls were a year ago. Horrible sound, funky play. Only good for serving practice. My guess is that XSF had a bunch of these left over from before and are selling them as basically practice balls or something. My advice is avoid seamless balls that are not ITTF approved.

Edit. It was pointed out to me that Ipong is marketing these balls a training balls.

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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014, 12:51 
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Baal wrote:
haggisv wrote:
It does make you wonder why they make the seamless bigger. You'd think if they make them closer to 40.00mm they would perform better AND be more durable.


One update. Today somebody brought some IPong seamless balls, presumably made by XSF, but not ITTF approved. They were terrible, essentially the are the same as the XSF balls were a year ago. Horrible sound, funky play. Only good for serving practice. My guess is that XSF had a bunch of these left over from before and are selling them as basically practice balls or something. My advice is avoid seamless balls that are not ITTF approved.

Edit. It was pointed out to me that Ipong is marketing these balls a training balls.


Surely training balls' quality are not as good as 3-star balls. You guys may have to lower your expectations. but I'm sure the balls left over will not stay in the market for long. Very soon the new version of training balls or one-star balls will come out.


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PostPosted: 13 Oct 2014, 13:58 
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sssandy wrote:
Baal wrote:
haggisv wrote:
It does make you wonder why they make the seamless bigger. You'd think if they make them closer to 40.00mm they would perform better AND be more durable.


One update. Today somebody brought some IPong seamless balls, presumably made by XSF, but not ITTF approved. They were terrible, essentially the are the same as the XSF balls were a year ago. Horrible sound, funky play. Only good for serving practice. My guess is that XSF had a bunch of these left over from before and are selling them as basically practice balls or something. My advice is avoid seamless balls that are not ITTF approved.

Edit. It was pointed out to me that Ipong is marketing these balls a training balls.


Surely training balls' quality are not as good as 3-star balls. You guys may have to lower your expectations. but I'm sure the balls left over will not stay in the market for long. Very soon the new version of training balls or one-star balls will come out.


Yes, that's why I edited my post.

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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2014, 11:04 
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Yes, that's why I edited my post.[/quote][/quote]

Baal, are you a pro or amateur player?


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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2014, 18:36 
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Actually, come to think of it... Are there any actual table tennis professional players (as opposed to professionals - which would include coaches, etc. who make money doing table tennis things but don't compete against others for money) here?

(Real "amateurs" would be people with much higher ratings than 1300.. ;) People like me would be, um, rec players.)

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PostPosted: 14 Oct 2014, 22:15 
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sssandy wrote:
Yes, that's why I edited my post.
[/quote]

Baal, are you a pro or amateur player?[/quote]

:D

Amateur --- for a very long time. I also do coaching for adult players. I think the Ipong balls should be find for teaching, for example multiballs and things like that.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 14:19 
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About the two colored balls. I've been doing some experiments, the best for seeing spin so far I've tried is three large 1cm black dots (applied with a marker pen) 120 degrees apart on a great circle. No matter what the spinning axis, two of the dots (and these are big, visible dots) will be off that axis and close enough to the "equator" to be visibly spinning. Really heavy top and backspin produces a blur but slower spin is quite visible, at least to the players (and to cameras trained in the right place). There's this really cool optical illusion (at least, I think it's an illusion) of the ball coming to a stop when it hits the table, and then it resumes spinning when it bounces off. Don't know if it actually allows you to play any better, I find myself watching the spin too much and forgetting to hit the ball properly. But it's worth trying at least once. And would be of great value for serve practice.

Three dots like this would be very easy to apply during manufacture.

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PostPosted: 06 Nov 2014, 15:28 
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I tried this when I first started out, the problem is when you get past a certain level any moderately spun ball is a blur and it's only useful for distinguishing spin/no-spin. But that's still something. Look for the brand logo in the short game, when not sure about opponent's contact thickness; it helps on 3rd ball attack, etc.


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PostPosted: 07 Nov 2014, 00:29 
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Even if it's a blur you can still tell topspin from backspin (not that it's that hard to tell, just based on the stroke used to produce it). More interesting is strong sidespin (or side+top or side+back).

How it looks on slowed-down video remains to be seen.

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