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What makes Joo special among defenders?
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Author:  deep2006 [ 20 Feb 2017, 02:45 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

joo is out of the world defender. his footwork is so fluid and he always oppsite half of the court to be in position to receive the exptreme crosscourt and that inborn mental compass helps him to reach seemingly impossible balls. He is versatile with the speed and backspin of his return . Also he thinks fat and is creative in adapting his game to the situation. Guess all this are god gifted talents to be sharpened by hard work

Author:  111Iceman111 [ 20 Feb 2017, 03:01 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

it is more complex than following, but ill keep it simple:

he chops equally good from both sides which lot of modern defenders cant, he have great movement and a killer fh spin...enough...

Author:  BeGo [ 20 Feb 2017, 09:35 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

iskandar taib wrote:
I must say, I found Gionis's chop to be more spectacular. When most choppers (including Joo) chop the chops start getting higher and higher. With Gionis, though, they're low and long and sneak in right over the net.

Is there anyone that twiddles and chops? Who can chop from either side with long pips OR inverted, AND loop from either side with inverted? If someone of Joo's caliber could master this it would be deadly.

Iskandar

Yes, We have Gustaf Ericson ;)

Sent from my i5E using Tapatalk

Author:  Bars [ 23 Feb 2017, 17:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

How he plays a complete match instead of trying to win every point/game. He's in it for the long hall. He plays better as the match progresses ahead or behind.

When hes flowing his matches just go like 1-0,,1-2,,3-2///0-1,,1-1,,1-2,,3-2!! Trading games back and forth is no problem neither.

Author:  NextLevel [ 08 Mar 2017, 04:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Forehand topspin and Forehand chop both at a high level. Very few defenders today chop and topspin at a high level on their Forehand side.

Author:  Baal [ 08 Mar 2017, 12:21 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Easy answer.

His offense.

Author:  Bizzoss9000 [ 24 Mar 2017, 08:36 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Baal wrote:
Easy answer.

His offense.


I'd argue it's more his incredible consistency on both wings.. he can chop back insane loops, even out of position, and hit it cleeaaner than any other chopper out there today

Joo's offense is world class, mos def, but I don't think it's necessarily better than other good choppers, especially choppers who only use their FH for attack like Weixing or Gionis

Author:  Baal [ 29 Mar 2017, 10:05 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Bizzoss9000 wrote:
Baal wrote:
Easy answer.

His offense.


I'd argue it's more his incredible consistency on both wings.. he can chop back insane loops, even out of position, and hit it cleeaaner than any other chopper out there today

Joo's offense is world class, mos def, but I don't think it's necessarily better than other good choppers, especially choppers who only use their FH for attack like Weixing or Gionis


I think Joo's offense -- mainly his forehand -- is far stronger than Weixing or Guionis because unlike the others he is very happy to step around and attack with his forehand on balls that are quite far to the backhand side -- just like any other elite offensive player. He seems to be able to transition from chopping to attack far more readily and rapidly than any defender in history, and he does it routinely on balls that the others would almost never attack.

I suspect it is Korean footwork drills, the same kind of thing that allowed Ryu Seung-Min and before him Kim Taek Soo to cover so much space with their forehands (remember both those guys had traditional penhold backhands and were pretty limited as to what they could do offensively from the BH side with that stroke, just as JSH is with his LP). It means that JSH can also cover a lot of space with just his FH when attacking. I believe that JSH has better attacking footwork than any defender ever -- and a lot of elite offensive players too. Of course, all three of these guys are steady as a rock chopping back insane loops. It is like watching someone walk a tightrope sometimes. Amazing for sure. It is possible that JSH is better at that ALSO than the other guys. But the thing that really stands out to me is how much more JSH looks to attack. And I think that is why JSH in his prime accomplished more than those other guys did.

Author:  Bizzoss9000 [ 29 Mar 2017, 13:48 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Baal wrote:
Bizzoss9000 wrote:
Baal wrote:
Easy answer.

His offense.


I'd argue it's more his incredible consistency on both wings.. he can chop back insane loops, even out of position, and hit it cleeaaner than any other chopper out there today

Joo's offense is world class, mos def, but I don't think it's necessarily better than other good choppers, especially choppers who only use their FH for attack like Weixing or Gionis


I think Joo's offense -- mainly his forehand -- is far stronger than Weixing or Guionis because unlike the others he is very happy to step around and attack with his forehand on balls that are quite far to the backhand side -- just like any other elite offensive player. He seems to be able to transition from chopping to attack far more readily and rapidly than any defender in history, and he does it routinely on balls that the others would almost never attack.

I suspect it is Korean footwork drills, the same kind of thing that allowed Ryu Seung-Min and before him Kim Taek Soo to cover so much space with their forehands (remember both those guys had traditional penhold backhands and were pretty limited as to what they could do offensively from the BH side with that stroke, just as JSH is with his LP). It means that JSH can also cover a lot of space with just his FH when attacking. I believe that JSH has better attacking footwork than any defender ever -- and a lot of elite offensive players too. Of course, all three of these guys are steady as a rock chopping back insane loops. It is like watching someone walk a tightrope sometimes. Amazing for sure. It is possible that JSH is better at that ALSO than the other guys. But the thing that really stands out to me is how much more JSH looks to attack. And I think that is why JSH in his prime accomplished more than those other guys did.


Feel like I should point out that Weixing has insane step-arounds and an extremely powerful forehand attack. Far more explosive than Joo and attacks at least as often, namely because he doesn't chop on the forehand. Joo is for sure a more skilled player than Gionis and probably does have a better FH attack, but you're making a point that Joo 'looks to attack' more often, and that's just not the case, because the ONLY thing Weixing and Gionis do on their FH is attack, lol

But yeah you made some good points for sure, interesting thought on the Korean footwork drills influencing his play

Author:  Lorre [ 30 Mar 2017, 00:51 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Bizzoss9000 wrote:
Feel like I should point out that Weixing has insane step-arounds and an extremely powerful forehand attack. Far more explosive than Joo and attacks at least as often, namely because he doesn't chop on the forehand. Joo is for sure a more skilled player than Gionis and probably does have a better FH attack, but you're making a point that Joo 'looks to attack' more often, and that's just not the case, because the ONLY thing Weixing and Gionis do on their FH is attack, lol

But yeah you made some good points for sure, interesting thought on the Korean footwork drills influencing his play


It's true Gionis and Weixing attack far more often with their FH, but at least in case of Weixing his FH isn't so penetrating like the one of Joo. It's more based on insane spin than on insane speed.

Maybe the polyvalence of Joo's FH also makes Joo the better defender overall?

Author:  leatherback [ 31 Mar 2017, 23:34 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Also. I can only think of two attackers ever that could just tee off of joos chop where as when I think of other choppers although solid in their defence, often lose in pure loop to chop battles.

Author:  Bizzoss9000 [ 02 Apr 2017, 09:27 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Lorre wrote:

It's true Gionis and Weixing attack far more often with their FH, but at least in case of Weixing his FH isn't so penetrating like the one of Joo. It's more based on insane spin than on insane speed.

Maybe the polyvalence of Joo's FH also makes Joo the better defender overall?


Not sure which of Weixings matches you've been watching.. but the dude has a crazy penetrating drive. Yeah he spins up balls as well, but when he attacks he often blasts the ball. More of a hardcore Chinese FH drive than the loop-drive of Joo

Author:  Lorre [ 02 Apr 2017, 20:56 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Bizzoss9000 wrote:
Not sure which of Weixings matches you've been watching.. but the dude has a crazy penetrating drive. Yeah he spins up balls as well, but when he attacks he often blasts the ball. More of a hardcore Chinese FH drive than the loop-drive of Joo


I'm still not convinced, Bizzoss. Do you want to give an example?

Author:  Baal [ 03 Apr 2017, 01:41 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Woke up in the middle of the night, so watched quite a bit of video of JSH, CWX, Matsushita, and Giotis. I came to the conclusion that maybe looking at JSH is a bit like three blind men and the elephant (it's a snake, not it's a rope, no it's a tree). I realized that nearly everything said on this thread is true!

I now think JSH is actually a little better at EVERYTHING than all of those others (followed by Matsushita). I still think it stems from his superior footwork, . He can cover so much ground (I still think Korean players of his generation, for example also RSM, are incredibly quick and wonder how they trained that).

Clearly the forehand chop of JSH is insanely heavy and consistent. I hadn't really appreciated that enough before. By comparison, CWX almost never actually chops his forehand when he is on defense, he sort of lobs it back or hits gentle topspin, but he rarely hits a really heavy chop from the forehand side. Giotis would almost prefer to do his kind of sidespinny forehand loop from distance.

All the good defenders have powerful forehand attacks, but JSH is amazing in his ability to get into head to head topspin counterloop rallys with the world's top offensive players and come out on top. CWX does not do that, his forehand is more Chinese looking and effective, but maybe one or two in a row to win a point when he gets a weak ball or to surprise the opponent. Compared to JSH he cannot cover as much ground on either offense or defense. (Accumulation of knee injuries?). Matsushita was pretty amazing in his mobility also. But JSH was just a little better. Evgueni Chtchetinine can chop insanely heavy and varies spin a lot, but lacks the strong attack of the others.

So fundamentally I now think the thing about JSH is his mobility and footwork, which lets him hit amazing shots from either side on either offense and defense. With that come the ability to step around and rip his forehand and to to stay in long heavy counterloop rallies where he is an aggressor, and at the same time bring back a ridiculous number of balls when he is on defense.

Author:  Bizzoss9000 [ 03 Apr 2017, 12:49 ]
Post subject:  Re: What makes Joo special among defenders?

Lorre wrote:
Bizzoss9000 wrote:
Not sure which of Weixings matches you've been watching.. but the dude has a crazy penetrating drive. Yeah he spins up balls as well, but when he attacks he often blasts the ball. More of a hardcore Chinese FH drive than the loop-drive of Joo


I'm still not convinced, Bizzoss. Do you want to give an example?


Too lazy to video hunt. No worries man, you're welcome to disagree

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