OOAK Table Tennis Forum


A truly International Table Tennis Community for both Defensive and Offensive styles!
Live Table Tennis Videos Table Tennis News Live OOAK Forum Links About OOAK Table Tennis Forum OOAK Forum Memory
It is currently 26 Sep 2017, 07:55


Don't want to see any advertising? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: 04 Apr 2016, 22:53 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3157
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 798 times
Been thanked: 360 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
I've just watched a compilation of young Joo's best shots of 2004 and I keep asking me this question: what makes Joo so special in comparison with other modern defenders? Not one young modern defender even competes at the level Joo competed at his young age. Why is that?

Is it pure talent? The versatility of his FH? His pips?
Community, enlighten me. :lol:

Ow yes: why do you think he turned more defensive when getting older? His disease? Injuries?


Top
 Profile  
 


Don't want to see this advertisement? Become a member and login, and you'll never see an ad again!

PostPosted: 05 Apr 2016, 09:44 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1659
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 134 times
Blade: BTY Innershield
FH: BTY Tenergy 64 (2.1)
BH: TSP Spectol (1.7)
There are 3 specific elements of Joo's game which stand him out from other defenders in my opinion:

- His forehand chop. A lot of modern defenders don't use this at all, but it's one of Joo's greatest attributes
- The penetrative element of his forehand loop, eg. how often he scores points with his forehand in comparison to other modern defenders
- His agility. He's so quick, so agile

However, I think the real key is his consistency. He's just the best actual defender. Even against the Chinese he returns shots that no normal human should be able to return.

_________________
[Old Gear/Other Setups] DHS Power G7, Adidas P7, Galaxy Mars v2, TSP Curl P1-R, Friendship 802, Butterfly Innershield, Xiom Omega IV Elite, Stiga Chop n' Drive, Butterfly Tenergy 64, Butterfly Tenergy 80, Butterfly Tenergy 05, Stiga Calibra LT Sound, Stiga Calibra Tour S, Tibhar Grass D.TecS
===========================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 07 Apr 2016, 23:32 
Offline
Holey Woods
Holey Woods
User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2008, 04:53
Posts: 1094
Location: Sweden
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 71 times
Blade: Stiga Offensive Classic
FH: Bluefire M1
BH: Grass D.Tecs ox
dunc wrote:
There are 3 specific elements of Joo's game which stand him out from other defenders in my opinion:

- His forehand chop. A lot of modern defenders don't use this at all, but it's one of Joo's greatest attributes
- The penetrative element of his forehand loop, eg. how often he scores points with his forehand in comparison to other modern defenders
- His agility. He's so quick, so agile

However, I think the real key is his consistency. He's just the best actual defender. Even against the Chinese he returns shots that no normal human should be able to return.


I agree with dunc on every point and the simple answer is that he's just more consistent compared to the other defenders, he gets more balls back with lots of spin, low height and good length. The second thing is his finishing power on the FH, when he gets an opportunity and goes for it it's usually his point. I think he could've used his FH more throughout his career though, he gets a bit "lazy" and comfy IMHO.

EDIT: I want to add balance as well, how he manages to keep his balance and form in some situations is just jaw dropping.

_________________
Read about my adventures to perfect my style and the ever-present battle against the evil EJ virus!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2016, 00:42 
Offline
Ping Pong Diplomat
Ping Pong Diplomat
User avatar

Joined: 18 Feb 2010, 21:44
Posts: 1097
Location: Canada
Has thanked: 224 times
Been thanked: 258 times
Blade: Victas KMO
FH: Yasaka Rising Dragon
BH: Cloud and Fog III
I would say it's his chop. Both forehand and backhand. I know his forehand loop is good and wins him many points but that is only because his chop yields weaker balls that he capitalizes on....I've said it before but if you honestly compare quality of forehands among defenders joo would be in third behind gionis and hou yingchao....it is still world class but it's his concentration on the heavy heavy chop in a time where no one else was playing with that much spin that allowed him to reach where he is.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2016, 00:54 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1659
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 134 times
Blade: BTY Innershield
FH: BTY Tenergy 64 (2.1)
BH: TSP Spectol (1.7)
leatherback wrote:
I would say it's his chop. Both forehand and backhand. I know his forehand loop is good and wins him many points but that is only because his chop yields weaker balls that he capitalizes on....I've said it before but if you honestly compare quality of forehands among defenders joo would be in third behind gionis and hou yingchao....it is still world class but it's his concentration on the heavy heavy chop in a time where no one else was playing with that much spin that allowed him to reach where he is.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

I think Gionis' forehand technique and power is second to none amongst defenders, yep. Hou on the other hand plays some absolute *worldy* forehand loop winners... but he also misses a lot. Sometimes he tries to be too flashy and ends up missing relatively simple balls.

For me though, Joo picks the right ball and places it much better than either Gionis or Hou. Gionis almost over-uses his forehand so attackers get quite used to it. Joo doesn't use his forehand as often (now, although I guess he did when he was younger) and I suspect that if we analysed their games we'd see that Joo's point-winning forehand is significant % higher than Gionis.

Hou could've been the best defender of all time.. but his mental attitude is terrible in comparison to Joo. That's another thing we should probably mention in this thread, Joo is a serious battler. I've seen him pull some amazing games out of the bag when he's been behind or in close situations. Hou on the other hand only plays really well against better players. Often loses concentration and mucks about against players he sees as being below him.

_________________
[Old Gear/Other Setups] DHS Power G7, Adidas P7, Galaxy Mars v2, TSP Curl P1-R, Friendship 802, Butterfly Innershield, Xiom Omega IV Elite, Stiga Chop n' Drive, Butterfly Tenergy 64, Butterfly Tenergy 80, Butterfly Tenergy 05, Stiga Calibra LT Sound, Stiga Calibra Tour S, Tibhar Grass D.TecS
===========================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2016, 00:56 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1659
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 134 times
Blade: BTY Innershield
FH: BTY Tenergy 64 (2.1)
BH: TSP Spectol (1.7)
So, er, to summarise... Joo is amazing at everything :rofl:

_________________
[Old Gear/Other Setups] DHS Power G7, Adidas P7, Galaxy Mars v2, TSP Curl P1-R, Friendship 802, Butterfly Innershield, Xiom Omega IV Elite, Stiga Chop n' Drive, Butterfly Tenergy 64, Butterfly Tenergy 80, Butterfly Tenergy 05, Stiga Calibra LT Sound, Stiga Calibra Tour S, Tibhar Grass D.TecS
===========================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2016, 03:05 
Offline
Count Darkula
Count Darkula
User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 15:07
Posts: 17391
Location: Dark side of Australia!!
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 260 times
Blade: Bty Gergely T5000
FH: TSP Regalis Blue Max
BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs
I think to begin with Joo is a more exciting player to watch. His movements just seem more accentuated to say Gionis. Might have something to do with his body structure, in comparison, but probably in combination with technique and reflexes. Might even come down to things like facial expressions and the way each guy celebrates points - of course this is not related to how special their game is exactly, but how they endear fans....but it does emanate out of the person/player, which all ties in with who they are and what we see in them.

I think this little highlights vid is a good summary of Joo's skills. Note the guy with the OOAK forum shirt on at 3.25 or so :lol: Also at 3.53 Joo plays a shot that I love to play when I get the chance, (which is probably about 5 times a season if I'm lucky :lol: )...but its such a good feeling to hit a kill shot with the pips straight down the line.



_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! :twisted: Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 08 Apr 2016, 08:25 
Offline
Chop or I'll Shoot
Chop or I'll Shoot
User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2007, 12:48
Posts: 1170
Location: SW Ohio USA
Has thanked: 6 times
Been thanked: 22 times
Let me first start of with, IMO I really don't consider Joo a Modern Defender. He is more a Classic Defender. In the video above I counted about 4-5 times where he just puts the ball back into play. Unlike Gionis, Weixing or Filus just to name a few where they will use their FH to... I don't want to call it lobbing for position but they will a lot of times just put back into play. Where Joo is either chopping or attacking. Again, IMO it is harder to play against a Classic Defender that attacks and attacks very well like Joo does. He keeps his opponent under pressure with every shot. That, is what keeps him above the rest of the other defenders.

_________________
Equipment:
Victas Koji Matsushita, Yasaka Rakza 7 2.0, TSP P1r Curl 1.5-1.7

USATT Rating: 1869

MOLON LABE!!!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 20 Apr 2016, 20:07 
Offline
Goes to 11
Goes to 11
User avatar

Joined: 13 Jan 2014, 20:27
Posts: 5956
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 701 times
I must say, I found Gionis's chop to be more spectacular. When most choppers (including Joo) chop the chops start getting higher and higher. With Gionis, though, they're low and long and sneak in right over the net.

Is there anyone that twiddles and chops? Who can chop from either side with long pips OR inverted, AND loop from either side with inverted? If someone of Joo's caliber could master this it would be deadly.

Iskandar


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2016, 03:20 
Offline
Blockhead
Blockhead
User avatar

Joined: 07 Jan 2009, 19:20
Posts: 2068
Location: UK
Has thanked: 68 times
Been thanked: 129 times
Blade: Xiom Offensive S
FH: Tibhar MXP max
BH: TSP Regalis max
Above all the comments above, there is also just a factor about Joo where he is so personable, likeable, and you feel you want to support him and he appreciates the support. That was borne out in his interview for the forum a while back.

_________________
Back to double inverted Spring 2016


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2016, 14:36 
Offline
Count Darkula
Count Darkula
User avatar

Joined: 01 Dec 2007, 15:07
Posts: 17391
Location: Dark side of Australia!!
Has thanked: 386 times
Been thanked: 260 times
Blade: Bty Gergely T5000
FH: TSP Regalis Blue Max
BH: Tibhar Grass Dtecs
so_devo wrote:
Above all the comments above, there is also just a factor about Joo where he is so personable, likeable, and you feel you want to support him and he appreciates the support. That was borne out in his interview for the forum a while back.


Good point so_devo, and well said! :up:

_________________
I'm always in the dark, but the Dark sheds lights upon everything!! :twisted: Beauty is only pimple deep! Beauty is in the eye of the pipholder!
S/U 1: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Andro Rasant 2.1 . BH Red Tibhar Grass Dtecs
S/U 2: Blade: Bty Gergely . FH Black Hexer+ 2.1 . BH Red GD Talon
S/U 3: Blade: Bty Gergely . No rubbers...thinking of adding Red Dtecs and Black Rasant
Aussie Table Tennis Shop / Aussie Table Tennis Facebook Page / Equipment Review Index / Read my Reb Report Blog: click here.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2016, 15:14 
Offline
Iron Pips
Iron Pips
User avatar

Joined: 14 Jun 2010, 22:07
Posts: 3425
Location: Göteborg, Sweden
Has thanked: 510 times
Been thanked: 270 times
Blade: DMS Revolution
FH: DHS Hurricane 3 NEO
BH: DMS Mega Block 1.5
iskandar taib wrote:
I must say, I found Gionis's chop to be more spectacular. When most choppers (including Joo) chop the chops start getting higher and higher. With Gionis, though, they're low and long and sneak in right over the net.

Is there anyone that twiddles and chops? Who can chop from either side with long pips OR inverted, AND loop from either side with inverted? If someone of Joo's caliber could master this it would be deadly.

Iskandar

Masato Shiono does that. But his FH attack is too weak.

_________________
My blog: Def-attack's attempts to find balance between defence/attack | Serving techniques and strategy section


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2016, 17:17 
Offline
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
A.D.D.I.C.T.T.
User avatar

Joined: 09 Nov 2012, 23:15
Posts: 1659
Location: Newcastle, UK
Has thanked: 156 times
Been thanked: 134 times
Blade: BTY Innershield
FH: BTY Tenergy 64 (2.1)
BH: TSP Spectol (1.7)
iskandar taib wrote:
Is there anyone that twiddles and chops? Who can chop from either side with long pips OR inverted, AND loop from either side with inverted? If someone of Joo's caliber could master this it would be deadly.

Ruwen Filus is probably the closest, though he rarely chops on FH.

From my perspective as an amateur - and this is probably true for professionals too - having to learn extra shots just means you make a greater number of mistakes. I think this is why defenders peak later - more shots to perfect.

Say myself and my friend (both 1000 hours of play, he's an attacker, I'm a defender) are playing against each other. He has a forehand loop or a forehand block to play off the table. I have a loop, a roll and a chop. That makes me 33% more likely to make a mistake as I will have been able to practice those strokes less often than my opponent has practised his. It also means that I have an extra shot to choose from, an extra choice to make in a millisecond as the ball is flying towards me - and obviously therefore higher chance of error.

_________________
[Old Gear/Other Setups] DHS Power G7, Adidas P7, Galaxy Mars v2, TSP Curl P1-R, Friendship 802, Butterfly Innershield, Xiom Omega IV Elite, Stiga Chop n' Drive, Butterfly Tenergy 64, Butterfly Tenergy 80, Butterfly Tenergy 05, Stiga Calibra LT Sound, Stiga Calibra Tour S, Tibhar Grass D.TecS
===========================
My blog: "Learning to play: as a modern defender": http://ooakforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=58&t=22254


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Apr 2016, 19:59 
Offline
Joo Too
Joo Too
User avatar

Joined: 15 Dec 2008, 18:31
Posts: 3157
Location: Dendermonde, Belgium
Has thanked: 798 times
Been thanked: 360 times
Blade: BTY Joo Se Hyuk ST
FH: DHS Hurricane 3-50 Soft R
BH: TSP Curl P1-R 1.5 B
A lot of interesting answers. :up:
Now, why did he turn more defensive later on in his career?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Apr 2016, 03:36 
Offline
Comeback Chopper
User avatar

Joined: 29 Feb 2012, 09:48
Posts: 314
Location: State College, Pennsylvania, USA
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 66 times
Another aspect of Joo's game I'd describe is his having a symbiotic relationship between his defense and offense. In other words, Joo's defense helps his offense and his offense helps his defense.

Defense Helping Offense: In one of Joo's interviews (I am not sure if it is our OOAK Forum interview), he says that his defense often sets up his offense. We often see this when he chops down the line with his backhand, which is then followed by a powerful forehand loop by Joo if the attacker loops toward Joo's forehand. We also see this when he does heavy chops on his forehand, which is again followed by a tremendous loop if the attacker performs a slower, higher loop.

Offense Helping Defense: To me, Joo's offense helps his defense because attackers know that they must aggressively loop Joo's chops, otherwise they will face Joo's loop. This results in the offensive players making more errors against Joo's chops, since they must perform riskier loops.

So, to me, it seems that Joo's symbiotic defense/offense is more effective than the backhand chopping/forehand fishing of modern defenders such as Gionis, Filus, and Chen, and also more successful compared to the classic defense of Shiono.

Steven

_________________
Butterfly Joo Se Hyuk
Butterfly Tenergy 80-FX 1.9mm
TSP Curl P1R 1.4-1.7mm
--------------
Returned to table tennis September 2011
Canada National Team Member, 1973-1975
--------------
1972-1987
Brickell Balsa/Birch 3-ply Blade
Yasaka Mark V 1.5mm
Joola Toni Hold AntiTopspin 2.5mm


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 34 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2, 3  Next



All times are UTC + 9:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Copyright 2012 OOAK Table Tennis Forum. The information on this site cannot be reused without written permission.

Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group




Don't forget to 'LIKE' our forum on Facebook if you enjoy the content: