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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 07:29 
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Blade: Dhs4006
FH: Hurricane3
BH: Double happiness g888
Hello,I already posted this question on announcements by accident, my bad. I am new to table tennis and I picked up the penhold grip since it felt the most natural, but after some time I realized that i couldn't close the blade on my backhand (traditional backhand). After trying a few grips and a bunch of index finger pain, i settled on an unusual grip in which the index finger is mostly straight and laying on the rubber and my thumb is laying on the wedge at the end of the handle (my blade has about 1.5 cm of gap between rubber and handle).
My question is if this grip will affect my progress in the long run and if i should change it.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 10:10 
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Front and back pictures would help.

Everyone is different, and I find the blade shape and weight affects how we grip as well. I see you are using H3 and G888, both being very heavy rubber (the G888 extremely so), this might be causing you to overcompensate in your grip pressure.

If anything, look at Ma Lin pictures, I consider his grip a nearly ideal starting point.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 17:14 
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Blade: Dhs4006
FH: Hurricane3
BH: Double happiness g888
I have tried his grip a while ago. Either I didn't get it right or it just doesn't suit me. I got a lot of index finger pain from trying to close the blade on TPB.
Here are some images of my current grip:


This is my first time with this forum. Tell me if the pictures are not visible.


Attachments:
File comment: backside RPB
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File comment: RPB( only messing around with it at the moment )
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File comment: backhand
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File comment: Forehand
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0f4898c9-f7f9-433a-a169-fc3e5b74fdc0.jpg [ 75.82 KiB | Viewed 612 times ]
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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 19:57 
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First of all, the first picture is way off.

For the back fingers, you can stack, or use 2 fingers touching, no hard rule with this. But try to keep the middle finger tip lined up with the imaginary line with the handle. Even slightly past (more acute, closer to the palm) if you find that more comfortable. You are overextending. With your TPB, you are still past the middle line so that is what's keeping you from being able to close it enough. Center, or even less.

For the front fingers, have the middle joint of your index finger on the blade edge (again, you are overextending) and curl it so that the side of your finger tip touches the bare wood part. You can also hook your index tip to the protruding edge of the handle, but that's again preference only, I don't). You can try to adopt a wide space between the thumb and index if you find that comfortable/more stable. I keep about 1 finger width between them. If the edge is cutting into your finger, get some sandpaper, the blade should mold into your hand.

If you are feeling the grip area is too thin, you can try leaving no gap on your next rubber purchase, or fill that area with some leftover sponge. This will make it feel more comfortable, but be aware that it might take away some vibration feedback or "blade feel". Try it and see if you mind.

Thumb position is good on the last picture, but again, overextended on the second.

How much does the whole setup weigh? A few of the problems can be attributed to you overcompensating for slip/residual momentum.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 19:59 
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BTW for index finger pain, try to engage your wrist more for angle control. Also, lifting the thumb on TPB naturally closes the angle. You still have to press the index, so no escaping. Just hope your finger will get conditioned to the pain (or the sponge pad tip).

There a a lot of nuances to penhold (I still experiment with grip variations and I played for more than 10 years).

I admire someone choosing penhold as first choice, but I can tell you with absolutely certainty shakehand is easier, less painful.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 20:18 
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The next tip is going to be a bit controversial. But consider ripping off the backhand rubber. Play single sided, master the basic forehand and tpb before thinking about RPB.

This way you can use much heavier blades and rubbers while still being overall very light.

This will be a long term decision because incorporating rpb in the future will require philosophical changes. I went from single sided to rpb back to single sided. Tpb and rpb have fundamental conflicts, eventually you will have to decide which is more important.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 20:35 
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Blade: Dhs4006
FH: Hurricane3
BH: Double happiness g888
Is this what you are talking about?
It feels kinda strange, but i guess i am just not used to it.
My setup is about 180g and i have really sweaty palms which doesn't help.
My blade is already sanded on both sides since i like to just twiddle with the blade sometimes and as a training for a possible playstyle change in the future. Maybe that also morphed my grip.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 20:38 
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Position is overall better, but maybe a bit too loose/shallow. Push the entire hand down/deeper a bit more. For inverted forehand, I find 2 fingers touching is more natural. TPB all stacked.

180g is not too heavy actually. Maybe you don't need to scrap the backhand rubber.


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 20:43 
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Blade: Dhs4006
FH: Hurricane3
BH: Double happiness g888
lasta wrote:
Position is overall better, but maybe a bit too loose/shallow. Push the entire hand down/deeper a bit more. For inverted forehand, I find 2 fingers touching is more natural. TPB all stacked.

180g is not too heavy actually. Maybe you don't need to scrap the backhand rubber.

Like so?
Hope i am not hitting the other extreme of being too deep. :D


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 20:50 
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Much better!

Maybe the back fingers are too straight, not too big of an issue but allow a little natural curl helps with comfort.

Its already a good starting point. Make subtle variations to suit your strokes as you advance.

Practice correct strokes, optimize your grip to make those strokes more effective. But keep attention and don't adjust your grip with hopes of fitting poor technique.

Start with the forehand brush loop, try to find cohesion between leg, waist, shoulder, forearm and wrist movements as well as associated muscle groups (move everything together, not one after the other). Then adjust your grip to suit the perfect angle to carry out the perfect muscle group synergy.

BTW, forget twiddling for now. Much harder than it looks for penhold and you risk having an inappropriate grip mid point. I tried twiddling, my conclusion is either you don't do it, or settle for a sub-optimal grip.

Have fun!


Last edited by lasta on 16 Jul 2019, 20:56, edited 2 times in total.

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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 20:52 
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Blade: Dhs4006
FH: Hurricane3
BH: Double happiness g888
Thank you very much!
You've been of great help. :)


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PostPosted: 16 Jul 2019, 21:08 
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Glad to be of service!

BTW, I used the G888 many moons ago, but on the forehand. Great for an all out style like RSM, but not really suited for the compact strokes of RPB. For a cheap option, the 729 Focus 3 Snipe is a good beginning. I learned on Rakza 7 soft which is nearly perfect for rpb.


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PostPosted: 19 Jul 2019, 02:52 
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lasta wrote:
The next tip is going to be a bit controversial. But consider ripping off the backhand rubber. Play single sided, master the basic forehand and tpb before thinking about RPB.

This way you can use much heavier blades and rubbers while still being overall very light.

This will be a long term decision because incorporating rpb in the future will require philosophical changes. I went from single sided to rpb back to single sided. Tpb and rpb have fundamental conflicts, eventually you will have to decide which is more important.


I concur with this. Penhold rackets, before RPB, were quite light. Adding that second sheet of rubber (unless it's, say, OX long pips) adds a lot of weight. The grip is weaker than with a shakehands grip so the lighter weight helps a lot. Note that even RPB users like Xu Xin use the traditional backhand a lot, too, and before RPB there were many, many world class players using the traditional backhand with great success. It's said that one advantage of the penhold grip is that the middle is continuous - there isn't an "elbow" where you have to decide whether to use forehand or backhand. This is particularly true for the close-to-the-table hitting and blocking game the Chinese were using in the 1960s and 70s. RPB extends your reach on the backhand, particularly for looping, but it's an advantage only if you don't give up using the traditional backhand where appropriate.

Iskandar


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PostPosted: 20 Jul 2019, 18:39 
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Blade: DHS PowerG-9 OFF++
FH: Yasaka Rakza X
BH: Palio Thor
There is no "true" correct Penhold grip. As long as the grip suits your mechanics and hand-shape allowing you to perform all the C-pen techniques and strokes comfortably.


You can try Lightly sanding down the edges and handle. I personally prefer the sharp edges because it acts as a reference for me to judge the blade angle I am holding it at.


I tend to use a "long" grip on the handle itself ... I don't seem to have problem with fingers slipping anymore which I used to have a lot. My grip is more of a pencil / writing pen grip :lol: rather than the Chopstick penhold grips :lol:

Also if you learn TPB properly and invest some time+money getting coaching to transition to RPB, it WILL BE WORTH IT ! I am self-taught C-pen RPB player and I have a HUGE disadvantage because TPB doesn't come naturally to me ... but RPB does.... So one aspect of the C-pen game is lost to me forever I fear. :P

_________________
__________________________________________________________
Backup C-pen blades:
  • TSP Black Balsa 7.0 :
    1. FH/BH-YRakza9/XOmegaVT
    2. FH/BH-*blank*
  • 729 Bomb : FH/BH-TG2Neo/H3 Orig
  • TSP Versal C-P : FH/BH-729SuperFX
  • Stag Balsa Koto : FH/BH-XOmegaVA/YJupiter-II
Fun blades:
  • Yasaka Battle Balsa(ST) : FH/BH-YRakza7/H2 Orig
==========================================================


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